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Games and Gaming: The Secret Language of Cars

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  1.  # 1
    Ok, if you go driving, you may occaisionally notice cars with small, square stickers, usually with simple, abstract symbols like
    or .

    These symbols all mean something to people who are in the know, and they can be an effective way for a subgroup to self-identify. While they most commonly show up on cars, if you're looking, you'll see them in badges, patches, banners and tatoos. I find it absolutely fascinating.

    I've been wondering whether gaming would benefit from such a symbol, and I am curious what people think of the idea.

    -Rob D.
    •  
      CommentAuthorndp
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 2
    Well....given this years theme.....


    ..what?

    In all seriousness, I'm not sure it would matter in any concrete terms. What potential benefit do you see?* I mean, I'm not gonna hang out at some guys car in a parking lot and ask him to play a game with me because he has a polyhedral dice sticker on his bumper.

    *Serious, not snarky, question.
  3.  # 3
    Are you looking for something as visually iconic as those squares, or just an adapted hobo-sign we can scrawl on fenceposts & such?

    I think this idea is intriguing, and would be fun, but it probably lacks the impetus for self-identification that those subgroups have.
    •  
      CommentAuthorVaxalon
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 4
    Yeah, but how would you promote it?
  5.  # 5
    If such a thing existed, I would consider its promotion to be sort of self-sustaining based on the level of interest. If it wasn't an idea that people responded to, it'd be a bad idea in the first place. And Dave is probably right that we lack the kind of impetus that has motivated some of these symbols. But on the other hand, we're nerds who love symbolic language, so I could see it having legs. Expose a geek to Hobo code, and watch what happens.

    But to answer Nathan's question, I see a couple benefits, and the first (and possibly biggest) has nothing to do with communication, and more to do with identification. It's a reason to give The Nod. The Nod is that moment of acknowledgment that members of a readily identifiable subgroup give when they see the symbols of their group. Apple computers are a great example of this: as a Mac user when you see another Mac user there's a little bit of buzz because you both know you're in the same group, and by virtue of being in this select group, you are somehow cooler/smarter/more with it/whatever than people who don't "get it".

    A corollary of this is that I admit I would totally get a little thrill anytime I saw evidence of a gamer outside of the usual game haunts.

    Now, it's a potential icebreaker in the regular scope of things. A patch on a bag, a sticker on a laptop, whatever - it's not going to be something to suddenly turn us into socially well adjusted individuals, but by the same token, I admit I would love a way to spot gamers that does not depend on either the books they carry or their level of personal hygiene. :)

    -Rob D.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAndy
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006 edited
     # 6
    Potential rpg symbol (and universal): A white square with a red lowercase "d" on it. Like almost, but not quite, the "d20" logo (without the 20).

    But then there's so much factionalization that next we'd need symbols for pervy Forge folks, the Clan That Hates Theory, etc. :-p

    BTW, what do those above symbols mean? (I've never seen that sort of thing before, it must be a meme that's taking a long time to spread phsically over to these parts.

    And then, finally, yeah, to echo Nathan: I figure most people who use these (I'm imagining religious or military groups) have that hobby as part of their personality, their being. I'm not sure that RPGs warrant that sort of thing. Cause I'd need to make up one for Kung Fu and American Pragmatism and I Like Cats too.

    But interesting. Maybe something could come out of thinking about them.

    -Andy
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 7

    I vote a red square with a white triangle inside, rotated to point to the left.

    |>

    It has no meaning. That's the point.

    yrs-- --Ben

  8.  # 8
    The first symbol basically means gay-friendly, and the second (I am told, but unconfirmed) indicates a proclivity for BDSM.

    Other symbols I have seen include:
    which indicates membership in a police anti-theft program. You put the sticker on your car and agree that if the cops see your car on the road between 2am and 6am, you can be stopped for no reason at all by the police to confirm that you are driving your card.

    is a Dive flag, and often sported by scuba enthusiasts.

    There are others, some of them being less kind, but once you start looking for them, you may be surprised.

    -Rob D.
  9.  # 9
    (See Rob's below)
    •  
      CommentAuthorRob Donoghue
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006 edited
     # 10
    Heh. Actually, I imagine and I thought "I actually think that means "Play", like on a VCR.

    But having realized that, I like it very much indeed.

    -Rob D.

    Edit: Though Jason's looks cooler. :)
  11.  # 11
    That crime stoppers one looks like a George Adamski UFO.
  12.  # 12
    I think Andy's "d20" without the "20" is the clearest badge. It's simple, graphically pleasing, and recognizable by people in the "in-crowd" even if they didn't read this particular story-games thread. It doesn't need a special in-crowd PR campaign.

    btw, I know the "yellow equal sign" badge is the Human Rights Campaign logo, but what group's logo is the black-and-blue badge?
  13.  # 13
    It does! I was puzzled about it for months since I literally couldn't decide if it was a car, a spy, or a UFO.

    -Rob D.
  14.  # 14
    No, wait, Play, that makes sense. I was going for kinetic, die in motion, but appropriating the international symbol for play is awesome. Duh.
  15.  # 15

    Oh, hey, that's good, Rob. Very, very good.

    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 16

    Jason, Rob -- Yeah, like that. Either way. I think that Jason's is very appealing visually but I like the "play" pun in Rob's.

    The point isn't that it is instantly recognizable right away: none of these other symbols are. The point is that it will become recognizable in the future. We are going to give it meaning, ourselves.

    Anyone want to make some decals? I don't own a car I'll slap one on my laptop. We can sell / give them away at GenCon.

    yrs--
    --Ben

  17.  # 17
    Another popular self-identification trend are those black and white oval bumper stickers. I believe they were originally for foreign cars, but now people made up their own oval sticker abbreviations.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRob Donoghue
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006 edited
     # 18
    If Jason will apply his color eye to a "play" one and post it (his red choice was way better), I'll call it a win and happily look into what getting decals requires.

    -Rob D.

    (Though looking, I think 990000 may just be easiest.)
    • CommentAuthorffilz
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006 edited
     # 19
    Such a symbol would definitely be cool. On my car I have this a bat which identifies me as a caver (spelunker to those not in the know), something like this which identifies me as a Unitarian Universalist, and an "I brake for trains" bumper sticker which sends both a safety message, and suggests that I'm into trains.

    Hmm, for old school gamers, how about an image of the 5 platonic solids in the colors the original TSR dice came in (pink d20, blue d12, green d6, yellow d4, orange/red d5 if I'm remembering right - the sticker would even look just perfect once it started to fade and get a bit ragged...)...

    I have definitely had people chat with me about being UU and caving as a result of these stickers. The bat sticker, in reflective safety yellow, has even once or twice helped in trying to find a caving event late at night, or at least been comforting that I'm on the right road (or we're both lost together...).

    Frank
  20.  # 20
    Rob, it was RGB 200 / 0 / 0 or CMYK 15 / 100 / 100 / 5; maybe we can get somebody clueful to set up us the 600 dpi decal master bomb. Joshua A. C. Newman perhaps.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRob Donoghue
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006 edited
     # 21
    #990000
    200/0/0

    Thoughts?

    -Rob D.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAlex F
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 22
    Does this make us all players?

    Or playas?
  23.  # 23
    Aren't we already both? If not, that might explain my lack of hos and my excess of ho hos.

    -Rob D.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 24

    The brighter color is better for recognition on cars.

    The darker color is better for bookbags, backpacks, computers, and such.

    yrs-- --Ben

    •  
      CommentAuthorVaxalon
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 25
    Red fades. Badly.

    I would recommend a green arrow (green for "go") on a black or gray background.
  26.  # 26
    A couple of things - screen color and actual print color are not the same, so choosing by vote based on how it looks on your monitors is a bad idea. Maybe we can get a bona-fide graphic designer to help out.

    It would probably be smart to see if that symbol is being used already, since it seems like a no-brainer.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 27

    If at all possible, it should be the same red as the red-box for D&D.

    But that's just me :-)

    yrs-- --Ben

    •  
      CommentAuthorThomas D
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 28
    In an older issue of Critical Miss was a desire for a secret gaming handshake. To summarize the article, the writer wanted a way to identify other gamers in social/work settings without committing "career suicide" by letting everyone know he likes pretending to be an elf princess every Friday night. ("You'd do less damage to your prospects if you said you were into trainspotting or model railways. Roleplayers learn early on to not talk about it.") Recently on the Dragon's Landing Inn podcast, one of the listeners left a voice mail about how he wore one of thier CafePress t-shirts ("My other shirt is +5 elven chain") to work and discovered that two of his co-workers were gamers. After working with them for over two years, he never knew.

    I think a solution is readily available -- you know all those odd-shaped dice we gamers seem to have too many of? Place one of them at your desk, cube, or workstation. If someone says, "Hey, a d8," gamer. If someone who is not a gamer asks about the funny die on your desk, you can just explain it's like a die in Monopoly, only with more sides.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 29
    I want a sticker.

    Yes, that's my contribution to the conversation.
  30.  # 30
    I'm tempted by green background rather than red, myself: Green means go, as Vax. says, and red usually means "warning."
  31.  # 31
    For visualization purposes


    -Rob D.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 32
    I like that better. It looks less... nautical.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 33

    Hmm ...

    It looks too much like an air freshener. How about blue?

    yrs-- --Ben

  34.  # 34
    Green! Green! Green!
  35.  # 35
    It looks all Esperanto and shit. Which is awesome.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 36
    Yay, Esperanto!

    Ludanta estas tre bona! Ludistoj venkas la mondo!
  37.  # 37
    &

    -Rob D.
    •  
      CommentAuthormisuba
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 38
    Whatever we come up with should definitely be tested on a diverse array of non-gamers.
  39.  # 39
    Oh, and now is the time to go "originate" this idea at rpg.net and enworld. Seriously, there's no point unless it can achieve wide acceptance.
  40.  # 40

    I really like the red. Yes, it fades, it's true. But we can always buy more.

    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 41
    I vote green. Red looks like it belongs on a ship (I've done too much research on the British navy) and the blue is just kinda... boring.
  42.  # 42
    Well, the alternative plan is I show up at Gencon with 100 of them and just hand em out.

    -Rob D. :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 43

    I'll shell out for another hundred, Rob.

    Or, you know, however many, depending on price.

    yrs-- --Ben

    P.S. We should write a little note that goes with the sticker.

    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 44
    Just 100, Rob? Lemme tell you a little story.

    My dad works an offset press -- or did, at least, when I was in high school. So at the end of our sophomore year, when it came time for the ever-popular student council elections, one of my friends filled out a nomination petition on a lark. We could make funny posters and post them around the school, ha ha! I had the great idea to make funny little campaign stickers (I'll be honest -- it was a high school sized class-conflict smear campaign; the 'funny' stickers were kind of savage), and got my dad to run off a couple pages on sticky paper. In a grid of 15x10, there were 150 stickers to a page; presses working as they do, it was just as easy for my dad to run twenty or thirty pages as it was to run five. So it was that we released over three thousand stickers into my two thousand population high school... and ran out on the second day.

    I'm pretty sure Gen Con is bigger than my high school.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 45

    And I'm still most fond of the red. It's flamboyant and easily noticed (that's why it looks nautical) which is key to the whole affair.

    yrs-- --Ben

  46.  # 46
    How about you mix & match stickers based on your gaming:

    Red looks like a D on a red field, and is used by those who play d20-based systems?

    Green is representative of money, and is used by those who have a business stake in the field?

    Blue is a cool color, and means you're willing to game whatever with whoever whenever, at least once?

    Black, gray, purple, orange, etc? we could have a whole symbology pretty quickly here
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 47

    No.

    This is symbology. Simple is good.

  48.  # 48
    Fine. Then I vote green, and here's why:

    Flamboyancy and easy-noticability don't seem to be the goals of this type of graphic. The Nod and the nose-scratch from The Sting are not flamboyant gestures. Green means go, triangle in square means play. GO PLAY.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 49
    Posted By: Ben LehmanP.S. We should write a little note that goes with the sticker.


    If you wanted to get all complex about it, you might be able to print on the backing of the sticker.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 50
    Dude, GO PLAY.

    It could be a GO PLAY sticker.
  51.  # 51
    Posted By: Dave YounceGO PLAY.


    I admit, that is pretty mighty logic.

    -Rob D.
    •  
      CommentAuthorwarren
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006 edited
     # 52
    I don't think this has come to the UK (at least, I've never seen any of the other examples shown in the thread), but for what it's worth, I like GO PLAY :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 53

    Nifty.

    I vote for at least a bright green, then.

    Let's get this party started. Rob, how much some nice, car sized stickers?

    yrs-- --Ben

  54.  # 54
    3x3 vinyl (i.e. for cars) price out as follows

    50 $40
    100 $72
    250 $142
    500 $215
    1000 $350

    I'm calling around to local offset printers to see if I can find prices for getting them as normal stickers too

    -Rob D.
  55.  # 55
    It would be awesome if one of these shipped with every IPR order, or something like that
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 56
    Once you get settled on the background color, the trick is then to find a green (or blue) shirt with a base color that closely matches, and start printing up T-shirts that have nothing but a big white right-pointing triangle in the center of the chest.

    At that point, people start wearing them. And we start looking like a superhero army.

    Which don't suck.
  57.  # 57
    Ok, I've got an offset printing quote, so here's my big question, and for this I ask anyone with printing experience.

    I like green, I want it too look good, but I have no real talent ot knowledge to tell me how much the green on my screen is going to look like the green on the page. Are there any particular greens (RGB/CMYK values) i shoudl aim for?

    -Rob D.
  58.  # 58
    Spreadshirt's crimnally easy to use, and people can customize the lettering if they want it to say something on their shirt.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 59
    Rob, there is literally no replacement for simply looking at a physical copy. If your press is local, they'll be able to show you a color sample.

    There is a workaround if they aren't local: the Pantone colors. You can go to any local print shop (or even Staples, I think) and ask them to see their Pantone color wheel or color sticks, and you can pick a color off of them, jot down the index number, and give that to your printer.
  60.  # 60
    Excellent, thank you Josh. They're local, but not conveniently local, but the Pantone thing should do the trick.

    (Oh, and to give context to the prices, actual sticker quotes are runnign about a third of what they are for the vinyl car stuff).

    -Rob D.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 61

    Let's get 1000 stickers to pass out at GenCon, then. I'm happy to pony up part of that cash.

    yrs-- --Ben

    • CommentAuthorJ B Bell
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 62
    I'm so glad this is happening here and that you, Rob, are owning it. It has actually come up several times over the years at rpg.net, with no consensus and what seems like a collective sigh, hands thoughtfully clasped under the chin. This is exactly what's actually needed--a not exactly democratic process, followed by someone with the resources' just doing it.

    And including them in IPR orders--that's just hot, that is.
  63.  # 63
    I'll say again that an initiative springing from story-games, or even from IPR, is insular and won't capture many gamer bumpers. But a viral Gen Con distro could help with that.
  64.  # 64
    I figure the viral nature of gencon plus the fact of having it _done_ will either work or it won't, but if I throw up a flare for concensus anywhere larger, it certainly won't get done in time, so I figure I'll take a small risk, and if it works, awesome, and if it doesn't, then hell, it'll have been cool to try.

    Left a message with the offset printer I want to go with, so hopefully the ball is rolling.

    -Rob D.
  65.  # 65
    Oh, I also ordered 10 vinyl stickers. Big problem is those are over the internet, so I don't want a bigger order until I'm sure they don't suck, but I'll have some of those on hand along with the stickers which are actually stickers.

    -Rob D.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006 edited
     # 66
    Rob, for us GenConless losers, how can we get our hands on some?
  67.  # 67

    Rob, I'm really excited about this. Fun thing!

    Honestly, I find identity politics to be something that really burns me up most of the time. But honestly, this is fun.

    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 68
    I agree, OtherJoshua. I think it's because the end-thing is so neutral. It's just "Hey I play games" and it's not "I play Game X because I am Y and Z Q R S." It's just a little flag of interest, and that's kinda nice.
  69.  # 69
    OK, Rob, you really *have* created a monster here. My two cents' worth:

    In NC, there are a bunch of bumper stickers that are, IIRC, black ovals on a white background, with a few letters in all-caps inside the oval. Apparently, they are indicate islands off the coast that you've visited.

    Or something like that. Here's the *real* idea: Make stickers in the same style, using the popular abbreviations for specific games (DND3E, D20, TSOY, PTA, WOD, L5R, and the like). Possibly use the same color scheme for Go Play.

    Better still, make ones for all the IPR games and give *those* away with orders of the requisite game. :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 70
    ...and here's the counter-example. See, Matthew, those would annoy me.
  71.  # 71
    Well, honestly, I figure I'll see if I can run through the supply at Gencon. If there are some left, stamps are cheap.

    After that, I'll probably play it by ear, but at least a part of it will be makign sure the graphic is up online along with a breakdown of what I did to make these happen. Hell, if I can put a bug in Brennan's ear and leave him with a stack to slip into IPR shipments, I won't cry.

    So the answer is....I;m mkaing this up as I go. :)

    -Rob D.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAndy
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 72
    Posted By: Matthew GandyOK, Rob, you really *have* created a monster here. My two cents' worth:

    In NC, there are a bunch of bumper stickers that are, IIRC, black ovals on a white background, with a few letters in all-caps inside the oval. Apparently, they are indicate islands off the coast that you've visited.


    Oh, slight tangent, but yeah I've seen that too: I thought it was some sort of car-themed decal. What do those mean anyway?

    Also, where in NC are you? Do you know about www.nerdnc.com (the nerdrdu mailing list and all)? Sorry if you're already aware...
  73.  # 73
    They were originally foreign nation codes, but now they're everything under the sun, especially Computer geek stuff.

    -Rob D.
  74.  # 74
    One used to be required to have a (D) on one's car while traveling through the GDR, to indicate that one was a non-Soviet outsider.
  75.  # 75
    Posted By: Andy
    Also, where in NC are you? Do you know about www.nerdnc.com (the nerdrdu mailing list and all)? Sorry if you're already aware...

    I live in east Raleigh, near Wake Med, but I work near RDU. Yes, I know about NerdRDU; I just signed up a month or two ago. I've been trying to ramp up to greater involvement, but there totally needs to be an indie-themed meetup someime soon!
  76.  # 76
    I want my Go Play sticker. I want it now.

    I'll settle for next week at GenCon.

    I'll pay $$ if I need to.

    I'll want several.

    One for my laptop, one for my Jeep, and um... one just to have.

    -Eric
  77.  # 77

    The oval stickers were originally European country codes. Every country had one.

    It's divisive in this context and the opposite of Go Play.

    • CommentAuthorTonyLB
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 78

    You guys just decided to create a symbol ... because you could, because the tools to do it are just sitting there ready to hand.

    That's so subversive. Rock on.

    •  
      CommentAuthorndp
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 79
    And I am totally convinced.

    GO PLAY is awesome.

    Gen Con will rock with GO PLAY.
    •  
      CommentAuthorHoho
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2006
     # 80

    I liked red better too but I am going home with a bunch of these.

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