Not signed in (Sign In)

Vanilla 1.1.9 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome Guest!
Want to take part in these discussions? If you have an account, sign in now.
If you don't have an account, apply for one now.
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2007
     # 1
    So, this year I'm going to be working on doing the Forge Booth Menu, to help the Forge Booth better tell people who's games are there to be demo'd, and who's games are there to be bought.

    But I want to go beyond that. This marks the first GenCon following the "Forge Booth diaspora" -- lots of indie designers are striking out this year and starting up booths of their own. The Forge booth, however, has been a focal point in the past, a way to draw the GenCon crowd in to one place so that they can get maximum indie exposure. With the diaspora happening, I have a real concern that the focusing value of the booth needs to be replaced with something else.

    That's where the Indie Games Passport comes in. The concept's simple:

    • There's a passport -- a single sheet of paper folded in half, this logo on the front, a place for someone to put their contact information on the back.

    • It acts as a map, telling people what other Forge diasporites can be found around the dealers' hall, and more importantly, where to find them.

    • It provides incentive for people to visit all of the booths by being part of a prize drawing -- turn in your passport, stamped by all of the booths listed on it, by (say) Sunday morning, and you get entered in a prize-pool drawing. Prize drawing would occur at some point on Sunday, and if you're not there, we use your contact info to send you the prize.


    To make this work, each booth would get a stack of the passports to hand out to people who don't have them already, and a self-inking rubber stamp from something like IPrint.Com. When someone drops by with a passport, use it as an opportunity to tell them about your stuff; then stamp it and send 'em on their way.

    If you're part of a booth that's interested in being a part of this, participation is easy:

    • Mandatory: Let me know BEFORE July 1st that your booth wants to be a part of it, by emailing me at evilhat AT gmail DOT com, with the subject line Indie Games Passport.

    • Mandatory: Let me know what you want on your rubber stamp, and what color of ink you want it to use (black, red, purple, green, blue, I believe are the options).

    • Mandatory: Let me know what your booth's booth number is, so I can provide that info in the passport and (if I can work out an easy way to do it) try to show where you are on a micro dealer hall map for the back cover.

    • Optional: Donate something as one of the prizes for the prize pool. Creativity here is a plus, but please make sure it's something a gamer would find of value, and one that won't cause huge headaches if it turns out I need to ship it to the recipient.

    • Optional: Toss me some cash to cover the expenses of the rubber stamp and many photocopies of the passport.


    That's it! I'm hoping to hear from the Ashcan Front, Play Collective, Collective Endeavor, and others I'm not even aware of. I'm also hoping to make this a "Divided, We Stand" opportunity to build a strong presence that permeates the hall this year, where everyone helps everyone else get the traffic they need to get off the ground.

    If you're not sure if you're "indie", please don't let that hold you back -- my use of the term here is very, very flexible. So if you're feeling like you're a questionable entrant, drop me a line, explain why you think it's iffy, and we'll reach a conclusion!

    Who's with me?
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2007
     # 2
    I believe I form the left arm of the Playcollective.

    We have to engage our crotchetocracy in order to decide on stamps and the like but I think this idea is nifty as hell.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRobert Bohl
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2007 edited
     # 3
    As someone who is part of, but spending no money and selling nothing at, the Play Collective, I'm in favor.

    So does this mean that since I'm a working boothguy I can't win? Damn!
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2007
     # 4
    Posted By: Robert Bohl
    So does this mean that since I'm a working boothguy I can't win? Damn!


    Ideally this is about making sure new fans are made, but anyone who feels they can participate in the prize drawing with a clear conscience is entirely welcome to. I'm not going to play cop! :)
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2007
     # 5
    Posted By: JuddWe have to engage our crotchetocracy in order to decide on stamps and the like but I think this idea is nifty as hell.


    Just make sure y'all get me the basics in email before the end of June!
  1.  # 6
    Honestly Fred, I was kidding. I wouldn't take a prize from a nonparticipant.
  2.  # 7

    Fred, thank you so much for doing this. I was trying to find the time to do it myself.

    Those stamps make fun ideas happen in my head!

  3.  # 8
    Is someone the head of the Games on Demand thing? I humbly suggest a Go Play stamp for you guys :)

    Peace,

    -Troy
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2007
     # 9
    Posted By: Joshua A.C. Newman

    Fred,thank you so much for doing this. I was trying to find the time to do it myself.

    Those stamps make fun ideas happen in my head!



    Ideally, I'd like to get a black and white logo from each booth and go for one of the square self-inking options for each one -- something to give a fun visual distinctiveness to each one, rather than boring old words.
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2007
     # 10
    Posted By: Troy_CostisickIs someone the head of the Games on Demand thing? I humbly suggest a Go Play stamp for you guys :)


    That's a good idea. :) And I'd definitely like to include GoD if we think we can manage to serve all of GoD with a single stamp...
  4.  # 11
    Man the prizes would have to be really good, I want the passport itself.
  5.  # 12
    This is a very metal idea.

    It would add to the costs, so this might not be a desirable idea, but having a basic prize for everyone who completed the circuit, like an Indie Games Passport die (or maybe a Go Play die) would be a good way to keep the idea of indie games in the minds of consumers whenever they go for their dice bag.
    • CommentAuthorJ. Walton
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2007
     # 13
    Both Games On Demand and Indie Games Explosion need to have stamps. That is where I will be living.
    • CommentAuthorJ. Walton
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2007
     # 14
    Also, can I vote we NOT have the hammer-and-anvil guy representing indie games? That screams Forge to me and indie games are more than just the Forge (I <3 the Forge, but it's true). Can we have the Go Play arrow instead?
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2007
     # 15
    Posted By: Jonathan WaltonAlso, can I vote we NOT have the hammer-and-anvil guy representing indie games? That screams Forge to me and indie games are more than just the Forge (I <3 the Forge, but it's true). Can we have the Go Play arrow instead?


    Jonathan,

    Could we talk on the phone. As per my whisper, this pisses me off but rather than have some kind of posturing contest online, I realize that we can just talk it over.

    Thanks,

    Judd
  6.  # 16
    Fred, I'll help out and toss you some moneys. I assume the Forge booth will be all over this like gravy on a possum.
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2007
     # 17
    Posted By: Jonathan WaltonAlso, can I vote we NOT have the hammer-and-anvil guy representing indie games? That screams Forge to me and indie games are more than just the Forge (I <3 the Forge, but it's true). Can we have the Go Play arrow instead?


    I want something that says "Hand-Crafted" in terms of its visual. I think Go Play is actually better for something like Games on Demand's stamp; if you'd like to browse CilpArt.Com and find me a nice, evocative, silhouette image that communicates the vibe, I'd be all for it.

    The hammer-and-anvil Forge connection isn't entirely accidental, though, given that this is the year of folks getting out of the Forge booth nest. I'm not sure I see what's wrong with giving a nod to where folks've come from, but I'm also not married to the idea.
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2007
     # 18
    Posted By: Jason MorningstarFred, I'll help out and toss you some moneys. I assume the Forge booth will be all over this like gravy on a possum.


    Yeah. Forge is a given, and I've gotten an email from Play Collective, but haven't heard from anyone else yet.
  7.  # 19
    Posted By: iagoYeah. Forge is a given, and I've gotten an email from Play Collective, but haven't heard from anyone else yet.


    I've sent you an email on behalf of the Collective Endeavour, but it was more to say that we're not actually there as a unit this year. Malcolm and Gregor will be though, with the Play Collective and the Forge respectively, and IPR has all our books. But no need for the passport - next year maybe!
    •  
      CommentAuthorHoho
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2007
     # 20

    I just uh want to parrot what Jon said. The Forge is a place but it's not the only place, and I don't think that branding other people with that symbolic iron is very fair to their individual identities.

    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2007
     # 21
    Posted By: shreyas

    I just uh want to parrot what Jon said. The Forge is a place but it's not the only place, and I don't think that branding other people with that symbolic iron is very fair to their individual identities.



    And to parrot myself -- do the work to find the replacement per my above spec, and I've got no problem.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAndy
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2007
     # 22
    Posted By: shreyasThe Forge is a place but it's not the only place, and I don't think that branding other people with that symbolic iron is very fair to their individual identities.


    It seems that if they don't want to be 'branded',

    1) They will help Fred find a new piece of clip-art (see above), or

    2) They will not go to Fred asking to be put on the brochure.

    That's just based on a read of the first and last posts by Fred, though.

    -Andy
    • CommentAuthorJ. Walton
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2007
     # 23



    I can make you a vector-y logo when I get home. Any specs or suggestions, Fred? Do you like "sculpting hands" as a general theme?

    (Also, that hammer-and-anvil pic is on the back of my copy of The Shadow of Yesterday, as the icon for Clinton's Anvilwerks).
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2007
     # 24
    I dig both of those, Jonathan. Simple vectors are ++good, since I'm going to be producing these by way of Kinko's; it needs to photocopy well.

    I'd like the aspect ratio of the "anvilwerks" dude (yeah, Clinton pointed that out) so I can just drop it in place of the original graphic -- the sculpting hands thing looks like it'd fit that bill.

    Thanks!
    • CommentAuthorJ. Walton
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2007
     # 25
    Also, are we going to invite booths to join the passport that, like the Code of Unaris guy in 2005, are selling indie games but aren't a part of the larger pan-Forge/IPR community? If we are interested in doing that, I would be willing to put in some research to figure out who those booths might be and contact them.

    (Trying to be productive instead of critical).
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2007
     # 26
    Posted By: Jonathan WaltonAlso, are we going to invite booths to join the passport that, like theCode of Unarisguy in 2005, are selling indie games but aren't a part of the larger pan-Forge/IPR community? If we are interested in doing that, I would be willing to put in some research to figure out who those booths might be and contact them.

    (Trying to be productive instead of critical).


    I'd love it if folks were willing to donate the time to find these people and point them at the three different places I've posted the "sign on up" message (my LJ, the Forge, and here). I'm a Big Tent kind of guy, so I'm definitely game to have 'em.
  8.  # 27
    Very nifty idea, Fred.

    If there's space... would it be possible to put in a list of indie game titles with little checkboxes next to them? So they can check off what demos of these games they've played?

    I dunno, just sounds passporty to me. Like others are saying, it sounds like a cool memento. Maybe the entry form part can be tear off or something? Or they just show the completed passport, and then their name is entered?

    Just some ideas.

    Mike
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2007
     # 28
    Posted By: Mike Holmes
    If there's space... would it be possible to put in a list of indie game titles with little checkboxes next to them? So they can check off what demos of these games they've played?


    That's going to be a function of the Forge booth's menu for the games demo'd there, but the Passport is meant to be more of a "go find these other booths" thing.

    Maybe the entry form part can be tear off or something? Or they just show the completed passport, and then their name is entered?


    Both are certainly a possibility.
    • CommentAuthorwoodelf
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2007
     # 29
    Posted By: iago
    That's where the Indie Games Passport comes in. The concept's simple:

    • It acts as a map,telling people what other Forge diasporites can be found around the dealers' hall, and more importantly, where to find them.

    [snip]
    If you're not sure if you're "indie", please don't let that hold you back -- my use of the term here is very, very flexible. So if you're feeling like you're a questionable entrant, drop me a line, explain why you think it's iffy, and we'll reach a conclusion!


    So, just to be clear--you looking for Forge-derived games, or indie games? 'Cause we're unquestionably the latter, and unquestionably not the former (kinda hard to develop a game with the Forge's help when we developed it before the Forge existed).

    [Though, i suppose it's a moot point, in our case, since we won't have our own booth--though i can at least tell Brennan that i vote for IPR to be included, in case for some bizarre reason he's on the fence. Unless there is a specific list of games, rather than publishers, in which case, we'd probably want in.]

    [And, yeah, add me to the list of people that gets ticked when "Indie"=="from the Forge", or vice versa--not that i think you intended to say that, Iago.]
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2007
     # 30
    Posted By: woodelfSo, just to be clear--you looking for Forge-derived games, or indie games? 'Cause we're unquestionably the latter, and unquestionably not the former (kinda hard to develop a game with the Forge's help when we developed it before the Forge existed).


    Even though Evil Hat is at the Forge booth, our games are not what I would call "Forge-derived". Point being, I'd have to kill myself in the eye if I prevented non-Forge-derived indies from participating in this.

    IPR is one of the primary sponsors of the Forge Booth, so it's getting included there.

    I am definitively not saying Indie = From the Forge. If anything I am one of the champions of saying Indie != From The Forge. :)
  9.  # 31
    Hi, Fred. I'm going to send you the requested stuff for The Ashcan Front.

    But, first, a couple questions.

    We're going to give an Ashcan Front t-shirt for a prize package (the shirt is actually pretty damn cool and badass looking). We also want to offer up that Ashcan Front participants will all critique the game of the winner's choice (which we hope would be their own game). Hopefully, that's workable?

    Also, what are the costs, and how much should we chip in? I have no idea. Is it $10? $100? What?
    • CommentAuthorwoodelf
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2007
     # 32
    Posted By: iago
    IPR is one of the primary sponsors of the Forge Booth, so it's getting included there.


    Oh? I should really just ask Brennan, but does that mean they're sharing ab ooth again? I thought he'd said that was too much hassle last year, and they'd be separate from now on. Which seems better from a PR standpoint, because (1) those who have an ax to grind with the Forge might still go to the IPR booth and (2) it puts a large collection of indie games in two different booths, increasing visibility and (3) the Forge booth tends to a be a zoo, which scares some people off, even as it's attracting others.

    Which is all more than a bit of a digression.
  10.  # 33
    Wow. That people have that much of an axe to grind with the Forge is weird. I sorta get the whole reaction against the Forge subsuming the definition of Indie. But, I don't get the reaction where people say "I'm indie, but I'm not a Forge guy, no no no!" as though that's like raising the stars and bars over one's capitol or something.

    From my view, I'm all for creator-owned publishers who have little or nothing to do with the Forge. That's great!

    At the same time, I just think the cottage industry is too damn small for anyone to dismiss anything out of hand because it has an anvil associated with it somehow. Weird.
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2007
     # 34
    Posted By: Matt_SnyderHi, Fred. I'm going to send you the requested stuff for The Ashcan Front.


    Thanks!

    We're going to give an Ashcan Front t-shirt for a prize package (the shirt is actually pretty damn cool and badass looking). We also want to offer up that Ashcan Front participants will all critique the game of the winner's choice (which we hope would be their own game). Hopefully, that's workable?


    Sounds great to me, yeah!

    Also, what are the costs, and how much should we chip in? I have no idea. Is it $10? $100? What?


    I'm thinking the supplies (rubber stamp, about $15 per "destination"; bunches of double-sided photocopies, dunno) shouldn't be too steep. If folks are looking for a recommendation, uh, $20-25?
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2007
     # 35
    Posted By: woodelf
    Posted By: iago
    IPR is one of the primary sponsors of the Forge Booth, so it's getting included there.


    Oh? I should really just ask Brennan, but does that mean they're sharing a booth again?


    That's how I understand it.

    (snipped the rest)

    Go ask Brennan. :)
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2007
     # 36
    Posted By: Matt_SnyderWow. That people have that much of an axe to grind with the Forge is weird. I sorta get the whole reaction against the Forge subsuming the definition of Indie. But, I don't get the reaction where people say "I'm indie, but I'm not a Forge guy, no no no!" as though that's like raising the stars and bars over one's capitol or something.


    I do think it'd be smart if IPR struck out as its own booth presence, but that has nothing to do with IPR's conflation with the Forge or any issues branching from there. I'd rather not take this thread into speculation about GenCon 2008 and beyond, nor make it a discussion of Forge axes to be ground beyond what's already been said...
  11.  # 37
    Ok, Fred, understood on all counts (both replies). Thanks.
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 28th 2007
     # 38
    I've heard from precious few folk on this. Don't let it pass you by! If you know of a booth that should be a part of it, let them know!
    • CommentAuthorPaul Czege
    • CommentTimeMay 28th 2007
     # 39
    Hey Jonathan,

    If you're scouting around for other indie publishers, you might check out Relentless Publishing:

    http://www.relentless-publishing.com/

    Their booth will be diagonally across from The Ashcan Front. They're releasing an old-school boxed-set-with-dice fantasy game at Gen Con.

    A couple of posts to their forums suggest they may not be commitedly indie:

    http://www.mickcathey.com/relentlesspublishing/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14

    http://www.mickcathey.com/relentlesspublishing/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60

    But it couldn't hurt to have a conversation.

    Paul
    • CommentAuthorJ. Walton
    • CommentTimeMay 28th 2007
     # 40
    Thanks for the suggestion, Paul. I got a list of all the GenCon booths and hope to go through it soon, scouting for potential partners. I'll make sure to check out Relentless.
  12.  # 41
    He doesn't have an RPG out (yet) that I'm aware of, but it's worth tapping Ken Burnside/Ad Astra to see if he's interested.

    James
  13.  # 42
    Heya,

    Where are you guys getting a layout for the GenCon exhibitor's hall? I've been searching for one, but coming up empty.

    Peace,

    -Troy
  14.  # 43
    Troy, there's a not-current version under the Exhibitor's info section of the gencon website.

    The 'current' version was sent out to exhibitors and it's a preliminary one that hasn't been finalized yet, because not all booths have been sold. Once it's locked in, they'll publish it on the website.


    James
    •  
      CommentAuthoriago
    • CommentTimeMay 30th 2007
     # 44
    Hopefully Jonathan's efforts will scare up some emails to me! (I've gotten a revised logo from him which is pretty damn sweet... should get that up sometime soon.)

    I haven't heard anything much since I first posted this several places (not even from the Ashcan Front, though I expect Mr. Snyder's still getting the stuff together for that).