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Games and Gaming: [Duel] This matter is settled

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  1.  
    •  
      CommentAuthorGraham
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2007 edited
     # 1
    Messrs Jacobson and Rappold. By midnight tonight, you will each, please, post a link to your game in this thread.

    I would remind you that the items to be incorporated into your game are: Film Noir, a musical scale, travel.

    Gentlemen of Story Games! Once the two games are posted, you will then, please, determine who should win the duel: Mr Jacobson or Mr Rappold.

    Do this, please, by responding in appropriately decorous language. For example:

    Indeed, I am for Mr Jacobson!

    Egads, I back Mr Rappold in this endeavour!


    This matter of honour will then be settled.

    Graham Walmsley
    Referee
    • CommentAuthorDirkGently
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2007 edited
     # 2
    Avast me harteys, Yo ho! I have come to plunder yon...

    Uhh... wait... that doesn't count as decorous language?

    Well, then uhmm... how about...

    Verily good sirrahs, count me as naught but present on this field of blood and honor. Since my opponent struggles with "coversion problems" (whatever black sorcery that be) I will take this opportunity to fire the first shot!

    Never let it be said that I was not afraid to shoot a man while his back was turned!

    Here is my game: Sweet Sad Song

    Let it too be known that my confidence in my abilities are so great that I left specific section unfinished solely to keep from embarrasing my respected and no doubt 'talented' opponent. That is also the reason that I did not employ the services of an editor.

    Editing and revision are for the weak! The weak, I say! Muwhahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    *ahem* And a shiny gold coin to anyone who votes for me. After all, a vote for Rappold is a vote against baby-eaters!
    •  
      CommentAuthorGraham
    • CommentTimeMay 30th 2007 edited
     # 3
    Mr Jacobson has requested more time to get his affairs in order. This has been agreed between the duelists.
    Graham
  4.  # 4
    Let the dueling begin!

    MacGuffin
    •  
      CommentAuthorGraham
    • CommentTimeMay 30th 2007 edited
     # 5
    Gentlemen of Story Games, you now have until Wednesday 6th June to express your support for either Mr Jacobson or Mr Rappold.

    Graham
  6.  # 6
    One vote for...

    Mr. Rappold!

    While I think that Justin's scripted out game looks interesting, I sense that he's got a serious issue with death spiral that has no solution in play. The winners get stronger, and the losers get weaker, scene after scene.

    Justin, how about if the loser of the scene gets to increase his desire instead of the winner? After all, doesn't losing out just make you want the thing all the more? Don't the winners have the benefits of their successes?

    Oh, and what about narration of the achievement of desire? It seems odd that, after all, the winner gets the MacGuffin, but there's nothing said about narrating the outcome of desire ("What happens to the winner?" notwithstanding). Which is key since that's what play is really about. You say so. It would be really cool if somebody could get the MacGuffin, but lose the game by not having the highest desire (that character getting what he truely wants).

    And winners narrate? No way, dude. The losers narrate. No? How else do you ensure that the losing characters are protected from damage to their level of player interest?


    OTOH, that's not to say that Adam's game is perfect, either. Even if it does at times look like Universalis played to a Dada tune. One basic note on presentation, man... sub-headers! The basic rules read like some huge run on sentence. I'm pretty sure there's a cool game in there... but I'm not sure that I could run it as is (even assuming that the few missing items were filled in). Just too many, "But in this case we do X, and in the other case we do Y."

    Can there be some way to mix up who is who's antagonist? And if somebody wants to be director... can somebody who doesn't want to do it allow them (if tis true that it's a labor)?

    You also have to keep your terminology straight. If it's a tune, it's a tune, and not a scene (and certainly not a chord, which mistake I think you make at least once).

    Worst of all... you need to roll to introduce cool stuff, and lose resources if you fail? There's got to be a better way than that.

    But, all-in-all, Sweet Sad Song looks pretty fun, and with work might be very cool. The genre elements are right there in front of the characters, the only things they can use to move play on. And, in the end, I think it covers Noir better as a general topic.

    MacGuffin looks neat, too, and with some serious remixing may come out very fun as well. I think that MacGuffins are their own genre thing (in some Noir, and some other genres like Hitchcockian suspense), but a fun one to concentrate on, nonetheless.

    Congratulations on both duelists on not being taken down by the duel. Congratulations on Mr. Rappold for seeming to have landed the more palpable hit.

    Mike
  7.  # 7
    Hmmm, I got some responses, but I'm feeling like the games should stand on their own merit, and voting should not be influenced by subsequent posts. So I'll refrain until the voting is closed.

    Thanks for taking the time to look at the games and participate.
    • CommentAuthorMr. Teapot
    • CommentTimeMay 31st 2007
     # 8
    One vote for Mr. Jacobson.

    At this point, I could play an enjoy MacGuffin, but really don't understand what's going on in Sweet Sad Song well enough to play it. There might be a good game in SSS somewhere, but I was lost on the weird cases, large amount of musical terms and weird order of presenting rules (ie, as far from useful order as possible, as far as I can tell).
  9.  # 9
    Bumping.

    Because the only thing more embarrassing than losing a game design duel is having one no one care's about. (I just keep telling myself everyone just needs some time to read through the entries.)
    •  
      CommentAuthorGraham
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2007
     # 10
    Gentlemen of Story Games! Do Mr Jacobson and Mr Rappold the honour of looking over their games.

    If, by Wednesday, the votes are tied, I will cast a casting vote.

    Graham
    • CommentAuthorBlue
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2007
     # 11
    MacGuffin is blocked from my office - I will attempt to review Mr. Jacobson's entry from my flat once the lights go down.
  12.  # 12
    Egads, I back Mr Rappold in this endeavour!

    His use of musical theory in this matter is both ingenious and amusing. I wish I had thought of it.
  13.  # 13
    Posted By: BlueMacGuffin is blocked from my office - I will attempt to review Mr. Jacobson's entry from my flat once the lights go down.

    Is it something in particular; maybe I can fix the problem.
    • CommentAuthorMike Sands
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2007 edited
     # 14
    My vote goes to Mr Rappold, huzzah!

    His work has a certain flamboyance in the use of music that I find... intriguing...
    • CommentAuthorBlue
    • CommentTimeJun 5th 2007
     # 15
    Posted By: Justin D. Jacobson
    Posted By: BlueMacGuffin is blocked from my office - I will attempt to review Mr. Jacobson's entry from my flat once the lights go down.

    Is it something in particular; maybe I can fix the problem.


    It's blocked by the webblocker - your site is associated with... gaming. If it were hosted somewhere else, it likely would not be a problem.... (Thanks for the offer)
    • CommentAuthortalysman
    • CommentTimeJun 5th 2007
     # 16
    One vote for Justin D. Jacobson's *MacGuffin*. I actually think Adam had the better idea, but stumbled in the execution. Each game has its problems, but while *Sweet, Sad Song* has better integration of the two concepts of music and noire and I wanted the idea of keys and chords to work, I don't think they do.
    • CommentAuthorGB Steve
    • CommentTimeJun 5th 2007
     # 17
    I'm afraid that both games have far too much musical theory for my limited understanding so I can't vote for either of them. Chords, high notes, wassat?
    •  
      CommentAuthorGraham
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2007
     # 18
    The matter is settled, gentlemen. Mr Rappold wins the day, with his Sweet Sad Song, by three votes to two.

    Thank you, assembled masses of Story Games.

    Mr Jacobson, in the agreed manner, all your property is now forfeit to Mr Rappold. Please make collection arrangements.

    Graham
  19.  # 19
    Well, I'll say I'm a little disappointed--not that I lost but in the general lack of interest. I thought it was an interesting project, and I'm glad I participated, but I would like to have seen a little more love from the SG crowd. Again, not with the voting per se but the overall lack of commentary about the process. I actually would encourage two higher-profile designers to give it a try.

    And, oh yeah, I wuz robbed!
  20.  # 20
    Is the issue with the format that it only involves two designers? Would there be more community involvement if there were a tournament format?
  21.  # 21
    Posted By: DanielSolisIs the issue with the format that it only involves two designers? Would there be more community involvement if there were a tournament format?

    Probably, and two relative nobodies at that. If, say, Luke and Ron decided to duel, you can bet your ass everybody and his uncle would be chiming in. I think the head-to-head aspect is what made it interesting and differentiated it from GC and other similar endeavors.

    There were also certainly some mistakes on our end. We didn't make much of an effort to publicize or solicit feedback and input (though, at least on my part, that was due to time issues). I also think an even longer design period would have served both Adam and I better. Both of our games weren't nearly as polished as I'd have liked them to be, which would have further distinguished it from GC and other similar endeavors.

    I hope I didn't come off as too ranty above. Not everything lands. I'll live.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThomas D
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2007
     # 22
    Good sirs, after a long absence from the Duel posts, I return to them a day too late to cast my vote!
    •  
      CommentAuthorGraham
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2007 edited
     # 23
    I don't know, Justin. That was five people who read through both games. Small scale, sure, but worth a lot. Reading through two games is a medium-sized task, so five people is a good level of interest.

    And it was just after Game Chef, too.

    Anyway, how are you connected to the Internet? All your property is forfeit.

    Graham
  24.  # 24
    Posted By: Graham WThat was five people who read through both games.

    Six, though after interviewing both of them, I decided to refrain from voting. I didn't want to look like I was favoring either side, because really I was freakin' favoring both of them.

    Congrats to both for making it all the way through, doubly-so to Adam for the victory.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAdam Dray
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2007
     # 25
    I just read both games and was very impressed by both. To be honest, I'd love to see a mashup of the the ideas in one game. I want the constraint of the sheet music pushing the chord-moods of the Noir characters. I want the chasing-something-unimportant theme of MacGuffin.

    In the end, I'd give it to Msr. Rappold by a nose.
  26.  # 26
    I have said so before but I want to give a huge THANK YOU to all of those that took the time to read the games... and for Ryan for his excellent interview! You get a double thank you if you voted for me!

    Also a big thanks to Graham for organizing this duel of honor. Sir, you kept us from spilling innocent blood in our 'epic' brawl... and for that I, nay the world, owe you a debt of gratitude.

    And of course, thanks to Justin! I look forward to recieving all of your property... ;)
    • CommentAuthorBlue
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2007
     # 27
    I read one and have yet had an opportunity to download and read the other - thus my lack of voting.

    I commented early on in the design process, but somehow lost track of things along the way. I would love to see this be done again - and honestly would not be opposed to participating as a Duelist at some point.

    Kudos to the Duelists and the Organizer for thier efforts and creativity!
    • CommentAuthorreaction
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2007
     # 28
    I, too, apologize. I printed both games out, and finished reading Sweet Sad Song during my gaming group on Wednesday night, so it was too late for me to cast my vote. I probably would have voted for Justin, but it was very close in my opinion.
  29.  # 29
    I didn't manage to get through all of either, but I'll definitely be reading them eventually -- after all, I suggested all that music theory crap, I want to see what came of it.
    • CommentAuthorDirkGently
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2007
     # 30
    Hey, the musical scale stuff was a good idea and ended up being a lot of fun to implement (and suited to Noir)... although, as I begun doing a little research, it quickly became apparent how absolutely clueless I was in regards to musical theory :)
    • CommentAuthortalysman
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2007
     # 31

    When I was reading your game, though, Adam, I was thinking "I basically like the idea of linking notes to concepts and playing `chords' in musical scales, but this looks too complicated!" And then I started mulling over how I would approach the same idea.

    Since I might not write it up, I will only say that my game was going to be called "Five Cats Got Drunk at Eddy's Bar", the musical notes represented any concrete noun that started with the appropriate letter, you rolled dice on a dice map to find out which notes are available and use those to form a chord, and you could only permanently change something if you are currently playing in its key (so modulation is important.)

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