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Actual Play Vignettes: Procedures

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2007 edited
     # 1
    So, what do you when you play an RPG?

    John's thread, Help me understand: GM writes the plot, inspired this one.

    How I GMed Dogs in the Vineyard:
    1) Make up a handfull of towns.
    2) Sit down with friends and make characters.
    3) Tweak NPC's to pinch on PC's points or make an NPC a relative of a PC.
    4) Play.

    Thoughts: I definitely had to make towns with one clear bad-guy and then a bunch of people caught up in the sin and the gray areas between for the players to judge and deal with.

    How Joshua played Dogs with us at Gen Con:
    1) Make up a town.
    2) Tell players, "This is a town about sex and violence."
    3) Players make characters with that somewhat in mind.
    4) Play.

    Thoughts: I liked this. We made our characters and they fit into the problems of the town. I'm not sure its necessary but it surely didn't hurt.

    How I started the Burning Wheel Orcs game over skype:
    1) Propose situation -Orcs trapped in elven lands after the decimation of their horde- to players, full well knowing the two guys and knowing that I was hitting on something that they'd dig.
    2) E-mail back and forth and skype with players during chargen, going over thoughts on orcish culture and setting bits to give them hand-holds for Beliefs and such. This where I both got their villains and made situations up, all over the map. Eventually, I had my buddy, Storn, make a map up for us that was really vital in the players' deciding what to do next and when throughout the campaign. Maps = POWERful tools.
    3) Go over Beliefs, make sure they are strong and worthwhile.
    4) Play.

    Thoughts: I really love this method of GMing, starting with a vague idea and situation, fleshing it out as the characters come to be. Once play starts, things get firmed up and there isn't so much collaborative hippie wiggle but at that point, everyone's waist deep in the fun-muck and enjoying it.

    Dictionary of Mu at cons:
    1) Read pre-made kickers out loud
    2) Hand out characters based on the player's digging the kicker
    3) Make sure everyone is invested in their characters with some last minute trading or talking.
    4) Everyone reads their character sheets and two dictionary entries.
    5) Play, paying particular attention to weaving players various kickers that start them all over the planet into one another, so that if they should want to meet, they can.

    Thoughts: This came from me wanting to play Sorcerer at cons, even though, in my experience, it is a game that really heats up but good during the second and third sessions. I've had some kick-ass sessions at cons but I could tell that the next two games of that campaign would have graduated from kick-ass to absolutely legendary and I'm not sure what to do with that.

    PTA at cons:
    1) Come to the table with no ideas at all.
    2) Explain to the players that we are going to take some time to brainstorm a TV show idea and it will be a bit frustrating but when we're done, we'll have a show idea and a game concept that we'll all be really excited about.
    3) Brainstorm with the table for a while and just when it get's good and frustrating, something has always clicked and we end up with an idea that get's everyone sitting up and engaged.
    4) Play like hell.

    Thoughts: Man, there is that terrible and awful thought that some day that click won't come but it hasn't happened yet.

    Conspiracy of Shadows ala Pirates:
    1) My friend, Paula asks me what system I'd use for a pirate game.
    2) I mull it over for a few weeks, e-mailing back and forth with her and brainstorming over forums.
    3) Propose Conspiracy of Shadows to the group and they all dig it.
    4) Make up characters, tying their PC's to the conspiracy and deciding on their roles on the ship. This is where I got my villains, off of the players' character sheets.
    5) Play!

    Thoughts: Sometimes, just raising the ole jolly roger and saying, "I'm playing this game, its going to be about this and we're playing on Saturday; let's go!" is the way to roll. I've seen plenty of groups get stalled just sitting and deciding what the hell to play (but that's another thread, I reckon).

    What do you want out of this thread, Judd?

    Great question, Judd!

    I'd like to discuss our methods for starting a game, particularly, what you, as the GM, make up and when. GM-less games are fine too, those procedures are important.

    Also, I'd like us to ask questions about our own procedures and try to refine what it is that we do when we play. I think player procedures might be cool too. Might be another thread and might not, I dunno.

    So...questions about the above and your own gaming procedures would be neat.
    • CommentAuthorBalbinus
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2007
     # 2
    Judd,

    In your Orcs example, what actually happened at the table when play started?

    I mean kind of literally, not so literally as in "Bob picked up a pencil, Tina spilt some coke on the floor" but as in how did play actually get going once you'd all done that work together prior to play.

    You have beliefs, maps, a great situation, you sit down and if I read it right you do not have a plot however one defines it because you don't need one, so what actually happened when play started? How did events start to drive forward and how was the driving shared?
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2007
     # 3
    Posted By: BalbinusJudd,

    In your Orcs example, what actually happened at the table when play started?

    I mean kind of literally, not so literally as in "Bob picked up a pencil, Tina spilt some coke on the floor" but as in how did play actually get going once you'd all done that work together prior to play.

    You have beliefs, maps, a great situation, you sit down and if I read it right you do not have a plot however one defines it because you don't need one, so what actually happened when play started? How did events start to drive forward and how was the driving shared?


    Great question, Max.

    One of the players mentioned in a conversation about the opening scene that he'd like his orc to have set fire to the forest as they were ambushed. I thought this was a great idea and checked to make sure that we wanted to start with the horde being decimated. They were all for it.

    So, we had an opening scene in the midst of a burning elven forest, orcs being decimated, the troll host that was supposed to meet them was a no-show (setting up a big enemy for later) and the first night was a combat with some elves to get used to the system a bit and getting used to rolling dice over skype. They killed the elves and took one prisoner, heading north on their Great Wolves.

    Is that the kind of thing you were looking for, Max?
    •  
      CommentAuthorJoe Murphy
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2007 edited
     # 4
    Judd, excellent.

    Can I add an interesting example from a 1 hour Polaris con game recently?

    1: Write four characters. Give them sufficiently vague traits that each player will see the Rorschach blot differently.
    2: Get the group together. Briefly explain the setting. Then the phrases system. No more than 5 minutes.
    3: Let the other three pick their characters, add a few finishing traits and a name. No more than 10 minutes.
    4: Play the leftover. Play 'heart' hard so that the player opposite must immediately provide obstacles for your brutal, epic, legendary daring.
    5: After the scene, take a break and ask who's brave enough to play next.

    This works a treat. It's GMing through demonstration.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJoe Murphy
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2007
     # 5
    Another question, Judd. In Mu, you hooked people through kickers, not characters? Did the advertising for the game tie into that at all, ie, 'Play a crazy kid with a rock who wants to bring down the elders!'?
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2007
     # 6
    Posted By: Joe MurphyAnother question, Judd. InMu, you hooked people through kickers, not characters? Did the advertising for the game tie into that at all, ie, 'Play a crazy kid with a rock who wants to bring down the elders!'?


    Yeah, kickers, not characters. That way they are invested in the opening scene and situation.

    While they read over the characters, I watch 'em and see who is nodding their head and who is laughing or chuckling or awesome-ing. I start with the person who makes the most ruckus, because I reckon they are the ones who know exactly what they want to do and I go around the table towards the person who seems the most tentative, so they get an idea of the feel of the world and how the game works.

    My blurbs mention the game's inspirations and some flavor text with a pulp fantasy flavah.

    I did have one gamer come to the table and sign up to play because he saw a picture of the Kid with a Rock at Jen's art booth and said, "Man, I like that guy!" and she pointed him at my game. With that in mind, I definitely just handed him the Kid with a Rock when we started play, explaining to everyone why. It was also neat because he was the youngest at the table.
  7.  # 7
    For the Beast Hunters game I just ran on Saturday:

    1) We emailed and LJ'ed about the game night and what people wanted to play; there was enough interest in BH that I offered to run it
    2) I offered for people to make their own characters or use pregens, and pointed to the free chapter with character creation rules
    3) I prepared for 30 minutes by making up the situation and beast, statting four threats, and making sure the environment had enough usable features
    4) When we got together, I handed out 4 pregens to choose from for Tim and Joel (Dave had made his own character)
    5) I handed out rules summary sheets and explained the rules
    6) Salute in
    7) Play

    Thoughts: Because this was a one-shot, putting the characters right at the showdown worked very well.
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2007
     # 8
    Posted By: Joe MurphyJudd, excellent.

    Can I add an interesting example from a 1 hour Polaris con game recently?


    Aye Joe, neat example.

    I played Polaris at a con and we made characters right there and then. Any particular reason for the pregens? Was it something about the people you were playing with that you knew? Did you tailor the pregens towards what you knew about them thinking, "I know X person is going to jump at Y character..."? Or were they sufficiently vague so they could assign their own meaning to the traits?

    With a game that has a few scenes rotating around, the order definitely becomes very important, no doubt. Leading by example is great.
    • CommentAuthorBalbinus
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2007
     # 9
    Posted By: Judd
    Posted By: BalbinusJudd,

    In your Orcs example, what actually happened at the table when play started?

    I mean kind of literally, not so literally as in "Bob picked up a pencil, Tina spilt some coke on the floor" but as in how did play actually get going once you'd all done that work together prior to play.

    You have beliefs, maps, a great situation, you sit down and if I read it right you do not have a plot however one defines it because you don't need one, so what actually happened when play started? How did events start to drive forward and how was the driving shared?


    Great question, Max.

    One of the players mentioned in a conversation about the opening scene that he'd like his orc to have set fire to the forest as they were ambushed. I thought this was a great idea and checked to make sure that we wanted to start with the horde being decimated. They were all for it.

    So, we had an opening scene in the midst of a burning elven forest, orcs being decimated, the troll host that was supposed to meet them was a no-show (setting up a big enemy for later) and the first night was a combat with some elves to get used to the system a bit and getting used to rolling dice over skype. They killed the elves and took one prisoner, heading north on their Great Wolves.

    Is that the kind of thing you were looking for, Max?


    Spot on, that's helpful, it makes it easier for me to get a grasp of the whole procedure. Once play is underway I figure it goes much like many games I or others run, it was that first moment was unclear to me from the procedure so far described before this clarification..
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2007
     # 10
    How we played Star Wars: Episode LV, Revenge of the Jedi
    1) I posted an idea for a Star Wars campaign on my LJ
    2) Friends commented with enthusiasm about the idea.
    3) We realized that many of us would be at Gen Con and conspired to play.
    4) I e-mailed the interested parties.
    5) I went back and forth on what system to use, decided on PTA.
    6) Sat down, made PC's and played.

    Thoughts: PTA's brainstorming works to get everyone invested and everyone was into it. Star Wars provides a really neat vocabulary for everyone at the table, fun toys to play with. We have a few recordings of this game and I'm going to try to get that out sooner, rather than later.
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2007
     # 11
    Posted By: xenopulseFor theBeast Huntersgame I just ran on Saturday:

    3) I prepared for 30 minutes by making up the situation and beast, statting four threats, and making sure the environment had enough usable features


    Chris, could you talk more about the prep a bit?

    As someone who is set to run BH in the coming weeks and has ideas on what to do with it, I'd love to hear what you have to say.

    I'm imagining both a tribal dispute of some kind that runs parallel to the beast that is being hunted.
  12.  # 12
    Sure. The section on Playing the Challenger in the book is pretty much the essence of what I do for prepping. Since the game is all about the challenges and allowing the Hunter to be creative and come up with cool shit, the challenges need to have a good amount of potential for that.

    At its core, we're talking about Gamist Bangs here. Where Narrativist Bangs present meaningful choices for the player within a situation that's thematically charged, Gamist Bangs present meaningful choices by providing tough adversity and a big toolbox of things to use to overcome it.

    The first thing I do is to look over the Hunter's character sheet. See how I can tie those things into interesting and challenging situations. The Hunt you're running will be about stalking the Beast, but that doesn't mean there can't be subplots going on at the same time, like the tribal dispute you're talking about. Pick some of the elements from Bret's sheet and weave them into a charged situation where you know the Hunter will be able to affect change. It's a good thing if these subplots are somehow in the way of reaching the Beast.

    Then I think about some particular challenges that the Hunter could encounter. I try to envision the environment for the challenge and neat elements that could be used. This is easiest with a physical challenge: for the Spider-God cave, I made sure that there were burning pyres, hanging roots, huge spiderwebs, underground steam eruptions, rudimentary and crumbling temples, and so on. All things that could be (and were) used in creative ways in the physical challenge. Location maps help sometimes, but I didn't have one in this case. At the same time, remember that it's perfectly fine to bring in non-physical things into a physical challenge: passions, doubts, glory on the line, and so on.

    For social challenges, you need a social environment: enmities, secret romances, power structures, alliances, insecurities, ambitions, and so on. That environment needs to be known to the Hunter so that he can make use of its parts just like in a physical challenge. Conflict webs/R-maps or something similar might help here. Think of it as a Dogs town where the goal is not to "solve/judge" it but to leverage the existing tensions for the Hunter's goals.

    For mental challenges, it depends on the type of what they are. If it's a test of willpower, there need to be things that impact the character's will. The key to those is usually in the character sheet. For more investigative or cunning challenges (a tracking duel, outmaneuvering pursuers, etc.), there also needs to be an environment that can be used.

    The thing that keeps prep manageable here is that I'm not actually (usually) assigning any stats to these challenges. I just make up some potent venues and key players. Then I see which ones the player marches into and create the adversity appropriately on the fly. (With demos it's a bit different, so I stat them in advance.)

    We could bounce around some specific ideas for Bret, if you want, but we might want to do it in whispers :)
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2007
     # 13
    Posted By: xenopulseWe could bounce around some specific ideas for Bret, if you want, but we might want to do it in whispers :)


    I'm reading through the book again now.

    I'm fine, thanks, no whispering needed.
  14.  # 14
    Different games require different degrees of prep. My rule of thumb when kicking off a session or new game is to come to the table with:

    1) A narrative bang that engages every character (or one for each character)
    2) A way to tie every bang to mechanics
    3) A willingness to cede the reins to any other player if they introduce a bang that engages them better

    I'm trying now to do the same thing when I come to the table as a player.

    This method seems to be giving me different mileage with different games.

    When I set up a TSOY or Principia one-shot, I start with a situation that presents a choice to all the PCs (narrative bang), with each PC having a key that lets them get XP for making a choice (link to mechanics). If it's principia, then I add a question that shows a link between making a choice and an issue related to the larger story.

    A really simple example is a D&D set up where all the PCs are in a situation where they to quickly co-operate to defeat a monster (and get XP for it).

    One game where I ran into trouble was In a Wicked Age. This game doesn't let you come to the table with prep. Here's what we did playing IAWA when I GM'ed, and the problem I ran into:

    1) Draw some story hooks from the oracle
    2) Use them to create characters with crossed-interests
    3) Players choose character, GM gets the rest
    4) GM tries to set a scene that cuts to the heart of these crossed interests.
    5) Players get into the story and the GM joins in using the NPCs under his control

    Step 4 tripped me up. What I was missing was the narrative bang. I find it really hard to create this at the table. Once the story gets rolling, I find it much easier. I'm not sure if this is a skill I need to work on, or if there's a procedural step that I'm missing.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJohn Harper
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2007 edited
     # 15
    I am in no way an expert at GMing Wicked. But here's a thing to do:

    1) Look at the interests of the characters. Find two that are in conflict.
    2) Look at the Forms of those two characters. See where there is a mismatch. Maybe one has a d12 Violence and the other has a d6.
    3) Frame a scene that puts those characters in a scene together, with an opening event that tips toward the Form where they mismatch.

    "This is the scene where Feyadra and Sorin were locked in combat in the slave pits of Olm."

    This immediately puts one character in the position to go on the We Owe list, and the other to kick ass. If that's what happens, cool! It ALSO puts the players on the spot if they want a different outcome. If the d12 Violence guy wants his character to be Owed, then he has to switch it up in the roleplay and do something crazy and cool.

    "Feyadra locks eyes with Sorin as their daggers clash, 'I just want you back,' she says. I'm using With Love!"

    Also cool. So, both directions are cool.
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoshua neff
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2007 edited
     # 16
    Great topic, Judd. I've had thoughts along these lines going through my head, after reading through (ok, sometimes skimming through) the "GM writes the plot" thread. What I'm going to do with my post is look at how I prepped games in different periods of my gaming life.

    How I GMed D&D, Gamma World, Traveler, & other RPGs back in junior high:
    I'd create a location (a dungeon, a ruined city, a planet or spaceport, whatever) and throw in as much cool stuff--cool monsters, cool traps, cool treasure, cool secret rooms, cool NPCs, gateways to weird dimensions--with the idea that wherever the PCs went, whatever the PCs did, they would encounter cool stuff. There was no plot, no idea of what should happen. Just a setting loaded with kewl.

    Thoughts: I always had fun doing this kind of prep, excited about what would happen when the PCs encountered all of the cool things I was putting in the dungeon/city/spaceport/whatever. And we generally did have a lot of fun when we played. We never took the gaming all that seriously, but we had a good time.

    How I GMed Doctor Who in high school:
    Using either the homemade system I created with my brother and step-brother or the official FASA game that came out soon after we made our own game, I would plot out a full "season" of stories, with ideas for companions joining or leaving. We would only end up playing a few stories from any particular "season," and we tended to skip around through "seasons." For an individual story, I'd come up with a setting (usually historical Earth or future space opera) and a basic situation. There was often a mystery to be solved, but the mystery was incredibly basic, and I put all of the clues right in front of the players. Once they figured out what was going on, the rest of the story was spent resolving conflicts and fighting monsters.

    Thoughts: I see this as the beginning of my slide into "GM writes the plot," although these games still ended up being almost entirely played by winging it and trying to keep up with the players as they did whatever they wanted. And we had a lot of fun playing.

    How I GMed White Wolf games in college:
    I'd spend a lot of time writing out plot outlines for long, epic chronicles (heavily inspired by the story structure of Neil Gaiman's Sandman, which was just becoming a popular comic at the time. For the Vampire chronicle I tried to get going, I plotted out how the PCs' Sires would all be slain by a vampire hunter, and they would be rescued by some benevolent vampire, who would serve as a mentor for them. I played some heavily railroaded preludes with two friends, but the rest of the game never got off the ground. For the Werewolf chronicle I ran, I sketched out a long sequence of stories, plotting out how the PCs would start by being introduced to the basic world of the game, and then the faeries would give them a magical artifact to watch over, which would eventually become extremely significant as they faced off against a Wyrm-fueled apocalypse that they could not defeat, and if this is starting to sound like I was playing before we played...boy, was I ever! In the shorter term, I would come up with some antagonists and the things the PCs needed to do, including who they needed to talk to and in what order, to defeat the bad guys. After a few sessions, the game fell apart.

    Thoughts: I had a lot of fun prepping for these games, but not a lot of fun running them. I was extremely bad in anticipating what the players would actually do, so the players and I would all get frustrated as they failed to follow my plot and I failed to let them actually do anything besides follow my plot. My other friends were often running games the same way, and I rarely had fun playing them. And yet, it would be years before I would really understand why I wasn't having fun.

    How I GMed HeroQuest:
    I've run short 6-or-so-session games for HeroQuest three times now. Each time, I picked a setting, created a bunch of NPCs in conflict, and had them actively recruit the PCs to help in the conflict. I would write up a list of bangs for each session and pull a bang out when it felt right. Other than that, I winged it.
    Thoughts: these games were more fun than the games I ran in college, but it was still kind of hit-&-miss for me. In retrospect, I think that even with bangs--rather than full-on railroady plotting--I get too attached to events occuring in a certain way, which leads me to use NPCs to force PCs one way or another. And when I try to force events one way or another, or when I have that done to me by a GM, I end up feeling very frustrated and dissatisfied with play.

    My conclusion from all of this is that the best play for me is with games where either you can't possibly force a particular story (with games like Capes, Breaking the Ice, My Life With Master, InSpectres) or the prep is simply "setting + antagonistic NPCs," like an old-school D&D dungeon (like Dogs in the Vineyard, The Princes' Kingdom, Trollbabe). Which is why the phrase "GM writes the plot" gives me the shivering whimwhams.
  17.  # 17
    Posted By: John HarperI am in no way an expert at GMing Wicked. But here's a thing to do:

    1) Look at the interests of the characters. Find two that are in conflict.
    2) Look at the Forms of those two characters. See where there is a mismatch. Maybe one has a d12 Violence and the other has a d6.
    3) Frame a scene that puts those characters in a scene together, with an opening event that tips toward the Form where they mismatch.


    Thank you, that actually helps a lot. That takes me a couple steps further along.
  18.  # 18
    Joshua N--I think you were on the right track with your HQ games, only the PCs should have been in the roles your NPCs occupied.

    One of the unintended consequences of DnD-as-industry-standard is the norm that the PCs start out small and weak. This works well for rags-to-riches dungeon crawling, but can be pretty bad for anything else. Many of the really great types of stories we seek to emulate through RP involve characters who start out in positions of power—think of the Atreides and the Harkonnens, or Hamlet, or Oedipus Rex, or the Arthur myths.

    Character growth won't be as exponential if the PCs start out powerful, perhaps, but there's still plenty of room for it.

    Even in my 3 Lifepath Burning Wheel game that I'm GMing right now, my PCs, while not as tough or kick-ass as 5 LP characters would be, have connections and a real place in the world through Relationships and such.

    Matt
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2007 edited
     # 19
    I liked this thread.

    The last two days, between a great game of Houses of the Blooded and a fun night of Arkham Horror with a promising game of Beast Hunters slated for tomorrow, I've got a whole lotta nerve talking about frustration but here's some.

    Here's how games don't happen. Here's how they stall.

    The Foul Pitch
    1) I pitch an idea to some gamers over e-mail or in person.
    2) No response or very little response or a -meh-.
    3) I ask if anyone else has ideas.
    4) Shuffling of feet.
    5) Find a new activity with these folks.
    6) On to game with different gamers.

    Thoughts: It doesn't happen all of the time but it does happen and its worth thinking about. Sometimes folks are already gaming too much or are swamped at work. More rarely, it has been something about the friendship that needed to be addressed but wasn't. Most recently it was my housemates and we just didn't gel and that's fine and cool.
    •  
      CommentAuthorOgremarco
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2007
     # 20
    How I run GURPS.

    1. Come up with some half-baked ideas with some imagery and mood involved.
    2. Try to explain it to my players and hope they understand.
    3. Watch them come up with truly insane characters that might or might not fit those half-baked ideas.
    4. Negotiate with players to bring the characters in-line with said half-baked ideas, or scrap ideas because the characters have more life than the ideas did.
    5. Start play not knowing where it will go, and stay light on my feet until something happens that makes a story happen.
    6. Find out if the players enjoyed the way that went and if they want to keep going on this track, or if they have other suggestions.

    notes, write allies and bad guys during smoke breaks with as bare a skeleton as possible and fill in details during conflict as appropriate. Sometimes fully write them in between sessions if they become hugely important.
  21.  # 21
    How I ran a Victorian Vampire Game in GURPS.

    Put out call for female gamers.
    Let scheduling weed out about 10 people, out of 17.
    Ask group what they want to play.
    Sigh resignedly and accept with ill grace the perceived necessity of learning the White Wolf System.
    Have flash of brilliance and realize I can run a Victorian Vampire game in GURPS.
    Survey players as to what sorts of characters they wanted, ask for 1 page bios and backgrounds with a focus.
    Receive bios ranging in length from 1 paragraph to five pages.
    Have endlessly sweet, patient and kind husband create 200 pt characters at work at nightclub (slow night).
    Spend a month trying to schedule first game.
    Show up for first session, eat selves into coma and begin the game.
    Squeal with laughter for three hours and watch spouses roll eyes.*

    Basically, I told them, you'll be whores in a high-class brothel, unless you can give me a good reason why you'd be there without being a whore. Got one bouncer, one psychic and her "ward" and a bunch of whores. And then we went from there.

    I did find out that it is incredibly easy to get a bunch of Victorian Vampire whores into the basement of the British Museum, and INCREDIBLY hard to get them back out again.

    I let their choices and reactions to things, as well as things they talked about out of character, lead the plot. I rarely start out with more than about six lines of notes and a nebulous end in mind.


    *I think most of the eye rolling came from one of my players' Welsh husband listening to my sad excuse for a British accent.
  22.  # 22
    How I ran a D&D campaign

    1. Posted looking-for-players message on the WotC boards. Failed to mention anything about playstyles, goals, or anything else other than "here's what books you're allowed to use".
    2. Planned huge epic save-the-universe type campaign set in uniquely conceived and painstakingly detailed homebrew fantasy setting. Failed to write any of it down.
    3. Met group of random strangers for coffee and character generation. Again failed to discuss playstyles, goals, or anything else other than "here's what books you're allowed to use".
      Additionally, failed to:

      1. provide players any information allowing their characters to fit into uniquely conceived and painstakingly detailed homebrew fantasy setting I hadn't written yet.
      2. provide any reason for players to care about uniquely conceived and painstakingly etc.
      3. ask players why their characters were motivated to adventure together
      4. tell players why their characters were motivated to adventure together
      5. humbly suggest that perhaps it might be helpful if, for some reason, any reason, their characters were somehow motivated to adventure together
      6. listen to the players talk about their characters with an ear towards actually coming up with a campaign they'd be interested in participating in.

    4. Agreed upon date of first session.
    5. Realized, approximately 30 minutes before players arrived for first session, that I had nothing planned for them at all. In desperation, downloaded free adventure from WotC website.
    6. Spent first hour of first session floundiring around trying to motivate characters. Spent next three hours dragging them through bland, uninspired, uninteresting adventure. Beat self up every five minutes over things I "should have done better". Noticed players were having fun anyway. Failed to join them.
    7. Played another session much like the first, but with one or two very entertaining scenes. Failed to recognize what made those scenes fun and try to do more of that.
    8. Lost one player due to family commitments and another due to insurmountable personality differences. Failed to use maturity and restraint in removing second player from group.
    9. Admitted to remaining players at third session that the adventure sucked and that I wasn't having any fun. Players agreed. Decided to skip remainder of adventure and promised much more interesting things in the sessions to come. Spent the next several hours just hanging out and talking about gaming and life. Found ourselves transformed from gaming group to friends who also gamed together. Failed to mention that I hadn't the slightest inkling of a plan for how the sessions to come were going to be more interesting.
    10. Slowly, over the course of next few sessions, drew the players into an intricate web of conspiracies, shadowy political and magical cabals, and the machinations of unknown gods. Failed to mention that I was just making up all this shit as I went along, frantically struggling to stay one step ahead of the players.
    11. Finally admitted to players that I was, in fact, just making up all this shit as I went along. Pointed out how many major campaign events came directly from my riffing off of their offhanded comments and asked that they please not stop making those valuable offhanded comments. Failed to disguise my relief when they said they found the idea of feeding me inspiration that way much more satisfying than trying to guess what they were supposed to do next in order to advance my completely pre-planned storyline.
    12. Participated in absolutely rocking sessions every week for the next year.
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2007
     # 23
    Ron, that is an amazing sequence of events.

    I honestly don't know where to start. It is all so dense with interesting shit.

    I'm just going to gaze on it for a while and figure out a few transitions that I'd love for you to talk about more.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRy
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2007
     # 24
    I also gazing at Ron words
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2007
     # 25
    Posted By: GeekGirlsRuleHow I ran a Victorian Vampire Game in GURPS.

    Put out call for female gamers.


    What does this mean?

    Did you e-mail friends? Post messages on local gaming boards? E-mail local RPG yahoo groups?
    •  
      CommentAuthorOgremarco
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2007
     # 26
    Judd: I think it was mostly her Livejournal.

    Ron: That is a fantastic story, and midway through i was thinking "Oh, what a tragedy. I feel bad for this guy." but the happy ending made me joyous. Thank you for sharing and for being so honest.
  27.  # 27
    Judd: Primarily I put out the call on my LJ, after months of my gaming posts being flooded with comments about how lots of girls had always wanted to game, but didn't have anybody, were intimidated by gamer boys, hated D&D and that's all they could find...

    I've actually been asked by a local comic/game store to run a demo game for girls in the shop. I just need to clear my schedule a bit, and we'll see what happens.
  28.  # 28
    Posted By: OgremarcoRon: That is a fantastic story, and midway through i was thinking "Oh, what a tragedy. I feel bad for this guy." but the happy ending made me joyous. Thank you for sharing and for being so honest.


    Totally. A gripping tale that I would pay money to see if it were a movie (recognizing that it would be in a theater probably at the cost of a hollywood exec losing his job)

    Ron: I believe #9 and #11 are great points to having a rocking fun game. That is, a) gaming with friends and b) making shit up based on what the players are knowingly feeding you.

    Have you had the chance to create another group focusing on those successful points from the start? The point I'm curious about is if #10 is sometimes necessary. That is, if you open with "I'm going to make shit up based on what you tell me" will turn some people away. But if you sell them on a fun time THEN pull back the curtain, you've already proven that its fun, so any skepticism vanishes.
    • CommentAuthorRon Hammack
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2007 edited
     # 29
    Posted By: Alvin FrewerHave you had the chance to create another group focusing on those successful points from the start?

    No, that was the last long-term group I was in.

    Interestingly, in the twenty-odd years I've been playing this was the first time I ever had occasion to go out and recruit a bunch of strangers to get a group together. Most of the gaming I've done was with people I already knew; an assortment of friends and roommates and coworkers and I would just sort of fall together, through no fault of our own, into a gaming group. (And then they'd make me DM. ;) )

    I learned a lot from the experience with the last group, so if and when I get another one together there's a lot of things I'm going to approach differently. I think the main one is that it's not going to be about getting together and playing in Ron's long term D&D campaign. We're going to be getting together to play games. One of those games might be D&D and one of the things we might do with D&D is play a longer-term game, but I'm not making that the focus. I'm just really not into the long-term campaign stuff anymore.
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     # 30
      Posted By: Ron Hammack

      Admitted to remaining players at third session that the adventure sucked and that I wasn't having any fun. Players agreed. Decided to skip remainder of adventure and promised much more interesting things in the sessions to come. Spent the next several hours just hanging out and talking about gaming and life. Found ourselves transformed from gaming group to friends who also gamed together. Failed to mention that I hadn't the slightest inkling of a plan forhowthe sessions to come were going to be more interesting.
      Slowly, over the course of next few sessions, drew the players into an intricate web of conspiracies, shadowy political and magical cabals, and the machinations of unknown gods. Failed to mention that I was just making up all this shit as I went along, frantically struggling to stay one step ahead of the players.
      Finally admitted to players that I was, in fact, just making up all this shit as I went along. Pointed out how many major campaign events came directly from my riffing off of their offhanded comments and asked that they please not stop making those valuable offhanded comments. Failed to disguise my relief when they said they found the idea of feeding me inspiration that way much more satisfying than trying to guess what they were supposed to do next in order to advance my completely pre-planned storyline.
      Participated in absolutelyrockingsessions every week for the next year.


    It is nine and ten that interest me at the moment.

    I think a whole other post with your procedures for drawing them in to an intricate web of conspiracies and such is what I'd love to hear more about how that happened.

    And nine just interests me because it is such a rare and courageous thing that you did and it entirely saved the game.

    Do you think the problems with players having to leave and personality conflicts were at all effected by the games themselves being frustrating?
  31.  # 31
    HERO/Champions
    * Spend several years writing up blurbs, science, Future History, and cultures for a sci fi novel (still unwritten).
    * Designed a "pamphlet" from the Human Stellar League, written as if it was a sort of "welcome to the culture" brochure handed out to newly assimilated planets/solar systems. It had a high-level overview of technology, politics, and other cultures (anthroformed humans and teraformed planets).
    * Filled out HERO/Champions' Campaign Sheet, to specify available skills, power limits, and general special effects required for each power in the book (exs: Teleport was only allowed as a Vehicle power on starcraft: "Tesseract Drives"; Enhanced Senses required either a cybernetic or genengineered justification).
    * Had players make characters on their own time, with some input when they got stuck or confused by my cramped, highly detailed Campaign Sheet. One requirement was that they had to make characters which would be "movers and shakers" on the Galactic level (to fit my railro--uh, plot).
    * Met for first session, presented the plot hook--each was a representative (or associate of a rep) of their planet at a major conference to resolve the "Problem of Emerging Galactic Sentience and its Effects on Psy Industries".
    * Interesting philosophical debates ensue, along with some serious loophole-poking (ex: why are we traveling physically, if The Net can use Instant Communication between stars?).

    Game ended in one session, as we basically "talked out" the whole story arc I had planned without ever rolling a die or even framing a scene. Fun? Yes. A game? I'd say no.

    Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying
    * Pitched the system ("Old skool hack and slash! Faster than D&D, for sure!").
    * Folks made various characters, with the provision that each had to (for some reason) be working for a traveling circus.
    * I drafted an overarching story, with episodes aligned (roughly) with sessions. I made a point of "pinging" a different aspect of play with each episode:
    -- The first was a bit of "investigation," a chase scene, and (believe it or not) a shopping scene ("time to equip the characters!"). Yeah... ugh on that last bit, eh?
    -- The second was a massive attack on the circus's wagon train (i.e. a bunch of crunchy combat and feats of daring-do)... BUT, I *had* to destroy the circus as a viable focus of activity for the characters, to fit my railro--uh, plot. Most didn't seem to mind, but one player felt like it was a bit of a bait & switch (she'd made a character with a lot of ties to the circus and whose major ability focuses were far more social than combative--I knew this would be fine in the long run, but she didn't).
    -- The third was *supposed* to be the "spur" session, where the party is mostly stranded out in the wilds between towns, they got attacked for no (apparent) reason--another "investigation" hook--and one way or the other, they were to be aimed squarely at The Pending Threat (a Chaos invasion). What threat this circus was to said invasion, I hadn't worked out yet... but I was hunting character sheets for hooks or, at worst, I was ready to treat its destruction as either (a) an opportunity for the vanguard of the invasion to remain unreported or (b) confusion by the vanguard (thinking this was more of a supply train than a circus--Chaos warriors wouldn't think of the colorfully painted wagons as "whimsical," right? No, they *must* be so painted to throw off any potential bandits! Eh, whatever...).

    But the third never finished--everyone was going glassy-eyed before I could even show them the nice shiny hook I planned to sink deep in their craws, to drag them down the railroad.

    These days... I only do either "pregnant" relationship/faction maps which will blow up without the players' interceding, and then I throw them straight into the soup; or I play GMless (mainly Universalis or highly competitive Clix with a thin situation; i.e. a dungeon crawl or field battle).

    David
  32.  # 32
    Posted By: JuddDo you think the problems with players having to leave and personality conflicts were at all effected by the games themselves being frustrating?


    I don't think they did to any great extent. One guy had to drop out because his wife's work schedule changed and he had to take over driving their kid to whatever kind of thing you drive kids to. The one I kicked out was totally an out of game problem. He was lot younger than everyone else and I think was just acting like a jerk to get attention. Which was annoying but tolerable when he was just being the rules-lawyering, power-gaming sort of jerk but became wholly unacceptable when he escalated to passive aggressive expressions of homophobia toward the lesbian couple in the group.
    • CommentAuthorJudd
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2007
     # 33
    Posted By: Ron HammackWhich was annoying but tolerable when he was just being the rules-lawyering, power-gaming sort of jerk but becamewholly unacceptablewhen he escalated to....


    Gotcha. That's two heroic decisions, then, both probably saved the game.

    Rock on.
  34.  # 34
    Here's my procedure most recently with my indie group:

    1. Met someone online who was into playing indie games, jazzed about stuff I was jazzed about.
    2. Roped in a coworker who's a gamer, but hasn't played on RPG in a long, long time. But has heard about stuff like Grey Ranks, and Shaba iri Roach, and owned a copy of Primetime Adventures that he wanted to play a game of.
    3. Brainstormed a show, ran out of time due to general tiredness.
    4. Got my neighbor into the idea of gaming (he only played D&D a few times, like 12 years ago) right before our next session, and had him make a PTA character to slide into our yet unaired pilot.
    5. My coworker couldn't make it, so instead of PTA, we played another indie game instead (A Penny For My Thoughts).
    6. Third session, coworker couldn't make it, so instead of PTA we played another "idea" game (Wild Talents).
    7. Decided that we like playing all sorts of games, so we officially made it our "dirty hippie indie game" group, instead of the idea that we're a PTA group. So we plan to play games that require little to no prep, to reduce any instances of "Okay, we're done making characters. See you next time!"
    8. A longer term plan is to eventually settle into one or two or however many games for more longer term play. We're looking towards HeroQuest and Spirit of the Century, but who knows what it will end up being.

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