Not signed in (Sign In)

Vanilla 1.1.9 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome Guest!
Want to take part in these discussions? If you have an account, sign in now.
If you don't have an account, apply for one now.
  1.  # 1
    So I'd been very intrigued by Paradigm Concepts' Witch Hunter: The Invisible World ever since it was announced, and a couple months ago I got a copy, which made me very happy. One of the things that called my attention was that in the descriptions of the game, the concept of "story" were greatly highlighted, and in conversations with members of PCI (mostly Eric), it had been made very clear that WH had been designed from the start to be a game of cinematic action where story was given primary importance. Neat!

    So I got the book and I skimmed over it, especially over the background section and the core rules, just to get an idea of what the game was about and how the rules worked. I went over the chargen section as well, but only lightly. When I was done, I remember I felt a bit dissapointed: for a game that touted story as its most important aspect, I did not find any rules mechanic that supported it. I'd been tainted by the story games concept and community, so I wanted to see some of that mentality and design in there. But alas, I didn't. I put the book aside to read later and moved on.

    Lately I'd been having the urge to run this game, so as part of my 2008 gamer resolutions, I decided to run a play-by-email game of WH. I immediately started reading the book cover-to-cover in preparation, and would you guess what I come to find within its pages?

    WH actually does have quite a few elements of story gaming in its rules and I had totally missed them because they are perfectly enmeshed in the rules of the game. For example:


    1. WH comes with a built-in bang/kicker: you had this Catalyst, some sort of event (usually traumatic) by which you became aware of the Invisible (Spirit) World and the machinations of the Adversary, and it is because of this that you now are a Witch Hunter. The game offers Orders that function kinda like Clans in Vampire in the sense that they give you a place to belong and a way to further define your character, giving you also some more kickers in the process as you define how your character matches the tenets of that Order.
    2. Virtue and Vice/Sin - more kicker goodness, and these can be "compelled" kind of like in FATE in that the GM can call a player out to live up to her Virtue and/or Sin, even (and especially) to the detriment of the character, but always to the betterment of the story. This can earn you Hero Points (see below). And get this, giving in to your Sin actually brings mechanical benefits, tempting you all the time.
    3. Some Talents (think Feats) give players the ability to define the world as they play (the biggest example is the Contacts talent, with which you can define who your contact is during play). There is room for growth here, but it is a good step.
    4. Hero Points - a kind of Fate Point, HP allow you to do a few story gamey things like gaining one by playing a Virtue to the character's detriment, by doing things that "drastically enhances the enjoyment of the Scene" (Fan Mail), or by adding a welcome complication to the plot by making a declaration; or you can spend one to negate a Vice/Sin compel, as well as to enjoy more mechanical benefits like an extra die or automatic stabilization when having suffered lots of damage.

    So what do you know, there is stuff in there in the realm of story gaming!

    The game sits squarely in the void between traditional and hippie games because, simplified as it is, there are still a number of rules to keep track of if you so choose, and task resolution is still king of the field. I would have liked to see more simplification of some of the crunchier parts of the book, ideally, though I like what I got.

    I know I will be introducing a couple more story gamey elements to my game, such as Beliefs from Burning Wheel (IMO, a must for a game where the character's religion is as important, if not more, as her name) and Conflict Resolution/Bringing Down the Pain from TSoY (especially because we're playing by email and I don't want to get into too many silly combats).

    So check Witch Hunter out: it hides its story gaminess within its pages.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAndy
    • CommentTimeJan 4th 2008
     # 2
    Hmmm. I checked out the site, and the character sheet (which usually gives me a solid idea of what the game is about), and I found this:

    Character Sheet for Adventurer

    I think I'd need to hear some more actual play reports based on FTF play before I'd throw money down on it. But the concept is pretty cool.

    -Andy
  2.  # 3
    FTF = face to face?
    Will PBeM do?

    If you have any questions about the game, ask away and I'll answer as much as I can. Personally, I love the concept; it was what sold me on the game from day one.

    As I read along, I am feeling more confident in calling WH a transitional game; perhaps not as clearly-defined as Spirit of the Century (WH still has more trad-style stuff, like the lengthy rules section, though to be fair, the system can be distilled down to "Ability+Skill=dice pool, then roll to achieve X number of successes, defined as 7+ on a d10), but certainly something that someone who has never heard of hippie-style gaming can pick up, get comfortable with, then encounter a story game and go, hey, this is an expanded idea from what I found in WH.
  3.  # 4
    Reviving this WH thread in response to Andy's question over here.

    There's been some threads over on RPG.net (and EN World as well) on the game, including one about the comparison between WH and SK.

    RPG.net


    From speaking to a couple of people who have both, it seems the preference tends to get down to system and/or love of the SK stories. I have not read Howard's SK stories, and never played Savage Worlds, so when I went through the book my impression was of a cool setting that was a bit too tied down to the source fiction (you don't play SK, but every character is tied to SK somehow).

    What appeals to me about WH is the mix of swashbuckle and horror, and the pseudo-historical setting. The game is set in the late 17th century, in a world where New Netherlands is still thriving, the Aztecs beat back the Spanish, and the nasties of legends are very much real. I like that the core book focuses on North America, but includes a gazetteer of the rest of the world (and new books and adventures are starting to explore other areas already). I like that the setting is not tied to an external source, and that while it is rich with its own history, I can very much pick and choose what elements I bring in (which, to be fair, you can do with any game, but those with an external source, like a novel, tend to elicit stronger feelings of sticking to canon).

    As I mention above, I also like the (transitional) mix of traditional and story-oriented rules. In my game I have been leaning a lot on those story-oriented rules (Hero Points, compeling Virtues and Vices) and the players have started to respond in kind, playing their their bangs, playing their Virtues/Vices, using Hero Points to grab narrative control at times.

    By all means, ask any questions you may have and I'll be happy to answer. And if you wanna give it a try at GC, we'll see if we can do something. I'm rusty as a GM (been doing it by email for a while now, but haven't had much face-to-face practice lately), but I'll do my best to run a fun session.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAndy
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2008
     # 5
    Ah, I totally forgot to check back to this thread those months ago after asking you about it. Thanks for following up. Giving it a thorough read.

    -Andy
    •  
      CommentAuthorAndy
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2008
     # 6
    OK, I skimmed and nailed the important parts of the RPGNet threads, and I went back and read your responses here. SOLD. I'll be checking this out next week.

    And yeah, if you happen to be going to GC, keep an open thought to running it at some point: I love to learn games by osmosis first, through fighting with the text second.

    -Andy
  4.  # 7
    I keep feeling like the text of this game may be profoundly better than my experience.

    -Rob D.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRob Donoghue
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2008 edited
     # 8
    Whisper back betrayed me
  5.  # 9
    Rob, I remember your experience at Dreamation from your LJ post. If you want to give this another try, no organized play this time, let me know. I'll be happy to put together a mission.
    Out of curiosity, do you remember what scenario was it you sat down for at Dreamation? Was it Swans, by any chance?

    Andy, I will be at GC from Wed to Sun. I have the Star Wars PTA game Thu night and Shabbat dinner plans for Fri night, but other than that I am flexible. Let me know and we'll see if we can get a quick mission going. Maybe with Rob (and I know Phil Reed was also looking for a possible game).
    • CommentAuthorphilreed
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2008
     # 10
    I'm up for a Saturday night game. That way, if I have fun, I can pick up the collection on Sunday. Try before you buy!

    I have a dinner meeting Saturday but after that I'm free to game.
    • CommentAuthorValamir
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2008
     # 11
    I had largely the same experience you did Daniel. I bought WH at Origins 07 (I think) as my unexpected impulse buy of the con.

    In the category of Traditional game that won't make your eyes bleed, Witch Hunters is a winner. However, for me, its still too much cruft and chrome and setting dump to make it something I'd want to play regularly.

    Where Riddle of Steel had one foot in Traditional Land and one foot in Hippie land, WH is more 3/4 1/4 which doesn't make it a bad game, just too much of a time investment for me to get into.
  6.  # 12
    Posted By: Daniel M. PerezRob, I remember your experience at Dreamation from your LJ post. If you want to give this another try, no organized play this time, let me know. I'll be happy to put together a mission.
    Out of curiosity, do you remember what scenario was it you sat down for at Dreamation? Was it Swans, by any chance?


    I'll definitely be hanging and easy to rope into play!

    I forget the scenario's name, but it involved a house getting burned down and some missing children.

    -Rob D.
  7.  # 13
    @ Phil: I have the Media Meet-n-Greet from 7-9 pm, and after that I'm good. I think there's gonna be a "Play with the Podcasters/Media" event right after the meet-n-greet in the same room, so we could meet there or at the Embassy.

    @ Valamir: 3/4 to 1/4 ratio I think is a good estimate; maybe a bit more but not quite half and half. For someone like me, who games with mostly trad-style gamers and who is still slowly getting into the story game frame of mind, it works out as a great gateway.

    @ Rob: I'll be sure to look you up, then, so we can get a game together with Phil. And thanks for the scenario info (that's a different one, not Swans, which I think does a pretty good job of working as an intro to the world and themes of WH).

    Andy, you in? ;-)
  8.  # 14
    To anyone who's played or read this game: have you seen anything about it that would make 1 player / 1 GM play particularly difficult? Things like D&D's emphasis on party tactics or many indie games' "give a fellow player a treat for doing something cool" mechanics?

    I can't find enough gamers around here to put together a D&D group, let alone anything obscure, but I think my girlfriend would really dig the setting
  9.  # 15
    Not from what I've seen and played. Play by email is very conducive to split parties and I have been in effect running a couple of solo games at times during the greater scenario. Just scale down the nature of what the Witch Hunter is investigating and be done. I'd put a bit more emphasis on NPCs to help round out the PC as well, but a solo WH should be no big deal.
    • CommentAuthorphilreed
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2008 edited
     # 16
    <blockquote>Posted By: Daniel M. Perez Phil: I have the Media Meet-n-Greet from 7-9 pm, and after that I'm good. I think there's gonna be a "Play with the Podcasters/Media" event right after the meet-n-greet in the same room, so we could meet there or at the Embassy.
    </blockquote>

    I'll ship you my cell number. Trying to play at the podcaster event sounds fine.
  10.  # 17
    Phil and Rob (and Andy, if you'll join us), if you want to, you can check out the pregens I'll be using and pick one ahead of time:
    http://darkprovidence.net/Rules.html

    There is a campaign guide on that page as well which serves as a good quick intro to the world. Read it if you have the time, but don't pay attention to the chargen rules there (those are for Dark Providence and we won't be using those).