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    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2008 edited
     # 1
    Let's be honest: I wrote XXXXtreme STREET luge in a few hours. (that's a link to a "build your own!" PDF. I may have some pre-assembled copies for sale at some point.) Now, being that it's a game that I wrote, there's actually a fair chunk of thought going into the rules, but still, it's not like it's an agonizing process or anything. It's mostly funny. I didn't playtest it: in fact, it says so right in the book "This is an ashcan, which is indie-gamese for 'I didn't do any playtesting.'"

    So we've got an hour to kill at GPNW after playing Sugarfighter Black and we're like "what can we do" and I'm like "we can play XXXXtreme STREET luge." And, much to my surprise, Lukas and Lesley and Joe go "yeah, okay."

    We played it. My guy is called "Velocaraptor" or Bob and he works sometimes at the club and he's got a bad complexion and he's really too old to be friends with the rest of the characters. He wants to get a steady job, take a night class at community college, and take a road trip to Providence (birthplace of the Gravity Games, natch.) Other people are likewise. Joe's guy (Gorehammer?) wants to lose his virginity, lose his virginity again, and learn good penmanship. Lukas's guy wants to get a new shift at his job at the Dairy Queen.

    The thing that happens is that these characters are kinda losers, but you really get attached to them because they're fundamentally decent and just a little too into their microcelebrity sport. You want to see them get their lives together, like, super-bad, and because the rules are against them, they fail all the time. It was really heart-warming, at least for me, and it was also funny as hell.

    For instance:
    "Hey, man, so that cop was totally yelling at you. What did you say to him to calm him down?"

    "Dude, cops have to deal with all sorts of shit every day: drugs, violence, crime. It's rough. So I just talked to him as one extreme dude to another and we worked it out."


    Playing the game has convinced me that playtesting is really over-rated. I've had a lot less fun with a lot more playtested games. What you need is just to make sure that your rules aren't mathematically wonky and that they're definitely doing what you want them to, and probably it'll work out fine from there.

    yrs--
    --Ben
    •  
      CommentAuthoramnesiack
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2008
     # 2
    That game was super fun. The characters are hilariously endearing, despite being kind of pathetic.

    I loved that Lesley's character (Angie aka "Angel of Death") was constantly winning races and showing people up in the street luge, "pumping up her muscles", and talking all kinds of shit, but she couldn't actually build up the courage to get a tattoo or ask out that cute punk rock boy at the club.
  1.  # 3
    But how do you stack this observation against the countless observations of people who had rules that sucked very badly before playtesting?
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2008
     # 4
    Posted By: amnesiackThat game was super fun. The characters are hilariously endearing, despite being kind of pathetic.

    I loved that Lesley's character (Angie aka "Angel of Death") was constantly winning races and showing people up in the street luge, "pumping up her muscles", and talking all kinds of shit, but she couldn't actually build up the courage to get a tattoo or ask out that cute punk rock boy at the club.


    Oh, the tattoo scene was so heart-breaking. I can't decide whether that one or the DQ scene was the best bullshit scene. (for those playing along at home: bullshit scenes are all the scenes which aren't about street luge.)

    The Angel of Death was hardcore. She totally owned us in the luge. If we had kept playing to the end she would have dominated, I think.

    yrs--
    --Ben
    • CommentAuthorJ. Walton
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2008 edited
     # 5
    Posted By: Robert BohlBut how do you stack this observation against the countless observations of people who had rules that sucked very badly before playtesting?

    Dude, Rob. This is XXXXtreme Street Luge we're talking about here. Design can be a casual game too, y'know. The lugers may claim to be hardcore, but we know the truth.
    • CommentAuthorValamir
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2008
     # 6
    Its awesome that your game was awesome...but your conclusion about playtesting...was that tongue in cheek? Cuz surely you're aware that there's no design law that says a non playtested game designed by someone with some talent for design and an awareness of a target audience can't turn out to be hella fun to play right out of the gate. That doesn't really say anything one way or the other about playtesting...its certainly not indicative that playtesting isn't a good idea.

    This is an ashcan, which is indie-gamese for 'I didn't do any playtesting.'"


    I'm not personally aware of anyone for whom this statement is true. And if there are some for whom it is...then they're doing it wrong.

    "Ashcan" is indie-gamese for "I've played the hell out of this game but there are still some things I just can't make work (or: which may not work for anyone other than me")...please help."

    Hard to tell how much of this post was meant to be flip and funny, so perhaps I just failed my DC15 Humor Test, but still.
    •  
      CommentAuthormisuba
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2008 edited
     # 7
    Posted By: Ben LehmanWhat you need is just to make sure that your rules aren't mathematically wonky and that they're definitely doing what you want them to,

    and for most people in most cases, playtesting is gonna be necessary to do those things.

    Ben has not actually said "boo on playtesting," folks. He's said what he's said, and I'll quote it again cause I like it:

    Posted By: Ben LehmanWhat you need is just to make sure that your rules aren't mathematically wonky and that they're definitely doing what you want them to

    XXXXTREME!
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2008
     # 8
    Ralph, you reminded me that I need to change up my back cover quote:

    "I can't tell whether or not you're joking." -- Joshua AC Newman

    If you like, I can revise it to "I can't tell whether or not you're joking." -- Joshua AC Newman and Ralph Mazza.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2008
     # 9
    Further quote from the game:

    "I am like a mix-tape of street luge." -- also Lukas, as his character Laser Beam (leonard).

    "I'd love to give you the promotion, Leonard, but you're just too valuable to us as a regular employee." Me, as Leonard's boss at the Dairy Queen.

    Come to think of it, Lukas is responsible for about 3/4 of the funny quotes of the session.

    yrs--
    --Ben
    • CommentAuthorValamir
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2008
     # 10
    Heh
    •  
      CommentAuthorfnord3125
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2008
     # 11
    http://playthisthing.com/xxxxtreme-street-luge
    in case anyone isn't aware...
    • CommentAuthorrafial
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2008
     # 12
    From the link: (It's not clear whether there are any chick XXXXtreme street lugers, but if so, I guess they compare themselves to Vin Diesel, too.)


    Ooo.... Variant! Female street lugers (lugies?) can compare themselves to Michelle Rodriguez, circa Girlfight.
    • CommentAuthorMcdaldno
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2008
     # 13
    Nice. Although I liked the strange-ness of having female characters likened to Vin Diesel in three ways.
    • CommentAuthorrafial
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2008
     # 14
    Really, in practice, I think the only thing it changes is Hair.
    • CommentAuthorCarl
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2008
     # 15
    Oh, so that's what was going on at the table next to our Bliss Stage game!
    If I'd realized that, I would have tried to set up a flashback interlude where pilot Anna Lin and her trusty sidekick Laura met as 10-year olds doing street luge, just before the Bliss hit. Or just after, strapping sleeping adults they didn't like to luge boards and sending them down the steepest streets they can find. On fire.


    "Extremeness is the fruitful void." -- Ben Lehman
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2008
     # 16
    Ah, a rules question! Sweet!

    Female street lugers also resemble -- or fail to resemble -- Vin Diesel.

    Duh.

    yrs--
    --Ben
    • CommentAuthorBryan
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2008
     # 17
    Just an observation, a friend of mine who was visiting this weekend saw my printed out copy, read it over, and his remark was, "Man, that guy must really hate role-playing games." He isn't a role-player, but likes to play card and board games. He was a big Magic player for awhile.

    Also, how do you set-up a Bullshit scene?
    •  
      CommentAuthorGraham
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2008
     # 18
    This game sounds great. I'm giving up playtesting right now.

    Graham
    •  
      CommentAuthorJasonP
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2008
     # 19
    I've always thought that the term playtest seemed to long, maybe if we just shortened it to play. . .
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2008
     # 20
    Posted By: BryanJust an observation, a friend of mine who was visiting this weekend saw my printed out copy, read it over, and his remark was, "Man, that guy must really hate role-playing games." He isn't a role-player, but likes to play card and board games. He was a big Magic player for awhile.


    Really? That's funny. It's more about being a role-playing game designer.

    Also, how do you set-up a Bullshit scene?


    I dunno. We just said what we're doing, and then people sorta jumped in and started playing out the scene. So Lesley would be like "I'm with my best friend and I'm going to get a tattoo this time, damnit." And then we'd start playing, me being the friend, Lukas being the surly tattoo artist, etc.

    yrs--
    --Ben
    • CommentAuthorBryan
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2008
     # 21
    Got it. That's how I figured to set up a scene, but just wanted to verify.