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    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Robbins
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008 edited
     # 1
    I've put together an article about what I know about Braunstein. It's based on talking to Major Wesely back in GenCon 2005 and again in 2007. He's the the guy who ran it all of 40 years ago.

    Have you ever heard of Braunstein? Most gamers haven't, which is pretty surprising since it was the first roleplaying game, the game that Dave Arneson played in that made him go off and run Blackmoor, which led to D&D and the convoluted birth of the whole thing we're doing now.

    I mention it here not just because it's a fascinating piece of gaming history, but because I think what happened in those games has a lot more in common with modern indie games than you might expect. It's kind of surprising: Dave Arneson was thinking outside the box before anyone had even invented the box. Major Wesely had no interest in fantasy escapism and probably would have been much more interested in Dogs in the Vineyard than he was in D&D.

    Either way, I think it's a surprising blindspot in our understanding of the roots of gaming and probably deserves more examination, so read on:

    Braunstein: the Roots of Roleplaying Games

    PS yeah, yeah, I meant to write this a long time ago, but it's pretty hard to tell someone else's story and do it justice
  1.  # 2
    Great post, Ben. Be sure to drag me with you when you go see Major Wesely at GenCon.
    •  
      CommentAuthorNeko Ewen
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
     # 3
    The Fantasy Roleplaying Gamer's Bible actually talks about Braunstein and other wargames a great deal in its explanation of the history of the hobby. It's particularly interesting because it also covers other games that made incremental, evolutionary steps towards inventing elements that are now standard in RPGs. There was a naval warfare game that had named ships and hit points, a dogfighting game with pilots that grew more skilled as they survived more missions, etc. It is odd that these things are seemingly always in obscure, out-of-print books.
  2.  # 4
    Neko -- I read a short description of Braunstein in some book years and years ago, which is why I recognized the name and went to the seminar in 2005. It's killed me that I've never been able to find the book again or remember the name. Maybe that's it?

    John -- Consider yourself dragged. I think getting a story game posse together to go to his talks would be awesome. It's even in Embassy Suites this year instead of the far side of the moon.
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2008 edited
     # 5
    This is a very cool article, Ben. Braunstein has interested me for quite a while ( Elliot Wilen who provided me with a gob of relevent links).

    As a side note, Braunstein-type games are still made and played. They tend to exist more as one-off,convention-based, minis games however, rather than any sort of published book that you can lay your hands on.

    Chris Engle ( matrixgamer) does stuff like this, as well as Paddy Griffith and Howard Whitehouse ( Science vs Pluck, Astounding Tales!).

    I think that these tend not to be vefry well known in the rpg/ indie rpg circles primarily because they're seen as wargames and in the wargames community ( with its tendency to only accept a Gamist Agenda/outright competitionn) as too fringe-y experimental.
  3.  # 6
    The description of the Braunstein that Dave Arneson played in almost sounds like Junta, what with the characters, the combat phase, and so on. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the Junta design had been based on it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorNeko Ewen
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2008
     # 7
    Posted By: Ben RobbinsNeko -- I read a short description of Braunstein in some book years and years ago, which is why I recognized the name and went to the seminar in 2005. It's killed me that I've never been able to find the book again or remember the name. Maybe that's it?

    It could be. I'm trying to remember if Rick Swan's Heroic Worlds mentioned it... I've read most every book I could find on RPGs and the history thereof, though the FRPGer's Bible has the most comprehensive look at the wargaming scene's evolution leading up to D&D.
    • CommentAuthorCallan S.
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2008
     # 8
    I think I can relate to Major Wesely. He's actually going to be at a gencon? You American guys are lucky!
    •  
      CommentAuthorMike Montesa
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2008 edited
     # 9
    Posted By: Neko Ewen
    It could be. I'm trying to remember if Rick Swan's Heroic Worlds mentioned it... I've read most every book I could find on RPGs and the history thereof, though the FRPGer's Bible has the most comprehensive look at the wargaming scene's evolution leading up to D&D.


    It did mention it. I got it on my shelf and the bit about Braustein is in the history of role-playing chapter. Great book and a great story!
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2008
     # 10
    This is a great article. Thanks.

    The bits about Dave Arneson's actions in the game are really key. It reminds me of some conversations I've had about Drifter's Escape (But I can't win! Sure you can, you just can't win by playing by the rules.)

    yrs--
    --Ben
    •  
      CommentAuthorping
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2008 edited
     # 11
    It was really a great experience and hanging with with Maj Wesely has really been the highlight of the two Gencon's we've attended. A couple of additional anecdotes that I remember (very possibly inaccurately):

    Maj Wesely said that at the time he was looking to find other local people in Wisconsin that were interested in playing war games, so he went to the library, checked out a book on military war gaming and then looked up in the phone book all the people who had checked out the book previously. Lo and behold, one of those people was Dave Arneson. See what you had to do before the interwebs?*

    My other favorite anecdote is very, very sketchy, but has to do with Braunstein I and when the players got to play characters and realized they had freedoms they never had before. One of the guys was trying to get into the town of Braunstein, but he couldn't because the bridge into town over the river was guarded by enemy forces. Too bad. But... the guy then said, 'Hey, why can't I just swim across the river?' which really threw Maj. Wesely for a loop and he didn't know what to do because there wasn't exactly a swim rule.** Similar situation came up when two enemy characters wanted to fight a duel, and again, no rules for that. Even though he tells these stories now with a sense of humor, it's pretty clear that at the time, his players drove him nuts with these crazy ideas.

    The second Gencon, instead of Braunstein, we spent the afternoon chatting with him about the history of TSR and his friendship with Dave Arneson. It was an an outstanding time.

    [edit]

    Whoops, I have to clarify a couple of things:

    * In case the kids today don't remember, back in the day, there was a card in the back of library books that had the names of everyone who had checked the book out. You took the card, wrote your name on it and gave it to the librarian who stamped the due date in the book and the card.

    ** This is the more correct version (see, memory very sketchy) which was that when they were playing the game, they were all in a room yapping to each other, and at some point Maj. Wesely pointed out that they couldn't actually be talking because their characters weren't in the same place, in fact on the opposite sides of the river. Then the player said, 'Well, then I'll just swim across the river to talk to the guy."
  4.  # 12
    Posted By: Callan S.I think I can relate to Major Wesely. He's actually going to be at a gencon? You American guys are lucky!


    Oh yes indeed. There are two sessions on the online schedule:

    Play The Braunstein Game
    Fri noon-2 pm (SEM00151), Embassy Suites - Ambassador II
    Sat noon-2 pm (SEM00152), Embassy Suites - Ambassador II

    Including the inimitable John Harper we've got about six people going so far. John how's the Friday session sound? Session 1, get him while he's fresh. Major Wesely is a lot of fun to talk to, so I think it will be a blast. In the past they've been seriously underattended so we could just sit in the front and pick Major Wesely's brain.

    Who's in?
  5.  # 13
    Posted By: Ben LehmanThe bits about Dave Arneson's actions in the game are really key.

    Yep, that's exactly right. It's also interesting that Arneson was playing one of the mechanically weakest characters -- all he had was leaflets, while other players had armies or secret police. I think he would have played his own way no matter what, but there's a broader point in there about limitations forcing you to improvise. Like you said, a bad player would whine about being powerless, a really good player would start playing outside the rules.
    • CommentAuthorCallan S.
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2008 edited
     # 14
    Posted By: Ben RobbinsIn the past they've been seriously underattended so we could just sit in the front and pick Major Wesely's brain.

    And damn, basically no one else knows about the treasure - it's just sitting there, waiting!

    I would ask him...why did the swimming statement flummox him? Sure, there's the idea that people should be able to swim - but did he want to include ideas like that? Or did the idea simply overwhelm him?
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2008
     # 15
    Callan: A river is a fundamental obstacle to an army, but not to an individual who knows how to swim. He was used to dealing with army units as the unit of play.

    Ben: Have you considered a pool to get this guy a copy of SAJ?

    yrs--
    --Ben
    •  
      CommentAuthorping
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2008 edited
     # 16
    Posted By: Ben RobbinsIncluding the inimitable John Harper we've got about six people going so far. John how's the Friday session sound? Session 1, get him while he's fresh. Major Wesely is a lot of fun to talk to, so I think it will be a blast. In the past they've been seriously underattended so we could just sit in the front and pick Major Wesely's brain.
    Who's in?

    I'm certainly in. It really is a lot of fun and an opportunity to get some perspective on this here thing we all do. It's also a rare opportunity for the obvious reasons, but also because there's danger that some of these guys may fall into obscurity if we don't remember them and seek them out now so even if you want to find them at the Gencons in the future, they may not be there.
    • CommentAuthorCallan S.
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2008
     # 17
    Ben, that still doesn't say whether he wanted to include individuals swimming, or if he simply felt compelled to.
  6.  # 18
    In refereed minis games, it's common for a player to ask a ref if they can try something not specifically covered by the rules.

    The ref is expected to make a call on the spot, creating ay mechanics as necessary with an eye towards rules and precedent.

    That would largely be the point of having the ref.

    So, presumably, Wesley would have felt compelled to create some sort of ruling for the attempt to swim the river due to his role as ref.

    Mind you, this is the kind of thing that tends to lead to rules bloat and divided(? opposite of Unified) mechanics.
  7.  # 19
    Major Wesely has just chimed in on the article, so you can get more straight from the source.
    • CommentAuthorCallan S.
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2008 edited
     # 20
    Robert, that could be the majority of it*. Though I'd say the refs position (To be pedantic about definition and language, I'm thinking a ref like in sports) is to make a ruling when the rules fail to cover a situation which comes up without anyone intending that situation to come up. Here, its a deliberate effort to enter into a situation the rules don't cover, which is interesting.

    * At an estimate. I'm wondering how, or if I should ask on the linked page.
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2008 edited
     # 21
    Hold on, there's the whole "Not precluded by the rules" bit of reffing also.

    Hence the term, rules lawyer.

    I mean, it's pretty straight forward. The game is supposed to allow for things that would be pphysically possible, even if unlikely. Where there isn't a rule, the ref's job is to make a ruling on the spot.

    I mean, gaming culture would have precedence for this. Kreigspiel open-form certainly would, although I believe Wesley has stated that a similar ( but unrelated) American training game was his influence.
    •  
      CommentAuthorElliot Wilen
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2008 edited
     # 22
    Okay, folks, I don't want to start any fights here, but it seems a lot of questions could be resolved by looking at the links I've collected in the past.

    http://ewilen.livejournal.com/tag/braunstein

    No apologies if your ears catch on fire from the indie-heretical commentary.

    You can also go to Rob MacDougal's articles at

    http://www.robmacdougall.org/index.php/2007/05/dungeon-master-zero/
    http://www.robmacdougall.org/index.php/2007/06/r-and-d/

    His and Ben R.'s articles are better put together, my stuff is more complete. Pick & choose.
  8.  # 23
    Good stuff Elliot. Thanks for the links.

    I was agreeing in the RPG.net thread that there really should be a wiki somewhere for all this information so people can carry on the torch.
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2008
     # 24
    I'm very much looking forward to an AP report.
  9.  # 25
    GenCon schedule correction: there was an error in the listing which they've now cleared up. Both sessions are really running from noon to 4 pm, not noon to 2 pm.

    Play The Braunstein Game
    Fri noon-4 pm (SEM00151), Embassy Suites - Ambassador II
    Sat noon-4 pm (SEM00152), Embassy Suites - Ambassador II
  10.  # 26
    I have the indie publishing panel thing on Friday. But I'll try to get to the Saturday one.