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    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2008 edited
     # 1
    Any AP reportage yet?
  1.  # 2
    Almost missed this thread. Yes a bunch of us played in Braunstein 1 on Friday but no AP yet. I unwittingly got the same character Dave Arneson did -- not the one where he threw leaflets out the window, the one where he challenged the Jaeger Colonel to a duel and got run through -- but I had much better luck than he did, getting promoted from lowly student to rising military phenom and forming my own goon squad to arrest people I didn't like. That's Lieutenant Student A to you!

    The really good news: one of the people there (Sandy aka the Chancellor) recorded the whole session and he should be putting it up for download. I'll link to it when I hear where it is.
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2008
     # 3
    Cool!

    Please expect me to ask many, many questions when you get an AP up.

    If you have a moment to answer, can you tell me what sorts of physical stuff ( maps, props, breifings, funny hats and stick on mustaches, minis, whatever) were used?
  2.  # 4
    Everyone got their own secret character briefing with background, relationships, objectives and your view of recent events, and everyone got an identical city map. We all had name tags with our character names on them (not really names but titles, like Mayor or Student A).

    And there was pseudo-Prussian monopoly money. Lots of it.
    • CommentAuthorTim Jensen
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2008
     # 5
    I played Braunstein 4: Bananaia on Saturday as the army commander, and came out on top in the end, forming a new coalition government with the head of the secret police and the other military heads.

    Banania, if you haven't already read about it elsewhere, is a fictional Latin American city state, a shining jewel of prosperity and democracy, ruled over by the beloved hero of the people and President For Life, El Hefe. :) (Most likely inspired by the 1966 novel Don Quixote, U.S.A. by Richard P. Powell.)

    The entire event took six hours, and began with a seminar of sorts where Dave filled us in about the development of Braunstein from his wargaming experiences.

    We then played a game that falls somewhere between a LARP, Diplomacy, boardgame and tabletop RPG. The players were given character roles, turn-based order sheets and some plastic WW2 miniatures to represent our units. After the initial rules explanation and set up phase, players spent the bulk of the game milling around in the hallway outside the room in various groups, negotiating with and plotting against each other. Each of the characters had hidden agendas that required us to betray someone, but we also had to work with others in order to achieve these. A few seemingly random crises events popped up as well, such as a smallpox outbreak and rumors of a looming invasion by Banania's hostile neighboring state. At the end of the game, each player was asked to vote on who they trusted and distrusted the most. I tallied Dave's spoken results up on a whiteboard so we could see who would have come out on top in the next government.

    After the game, a few of us hung around for Dave to pick up where he left off with the 'seminar' and then got into a detailed discussion on the adaption and development of dice. This went on until Lou Zocchi himself came in to host the next talk.

    The play of the game was fairly similar to Diplomacy's wheeling and dealing, with a greater emphasis on LARP-style character portrayal. I'm pretty sure that the players were bringing our LARP experience to the game with us, as the rules of Braunstein themselves don't address the portrayal of roles outside of the parameters of the order sheets.

    Sandy Clark recorded the first four hours of the event and said that he will be posting the .mp3 soon.
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2008
     # 6
    Awesome fellas. Can you give me a bit more detail on:

    1) Beyond the briefings, what were characters like? Were they described by any sort of numerical ratings/stats. Any special rules by charactre? Metagame abilities?

    2) In what fashion were the miniatures used (expect picky follow-up questions ...)

    3) You mentioned order sheets. What were these like, how were they used, and how often were these turned in?

    4) Did Wesely act as the only GM, or were there other official helpers during play?

    5) Approximately how many turns were played, and how long did these take to resolve?

    6) Actually, what method was used for resolution or resolutions?

    7) You mentioned the rules were explained verbally. What did you have in the way of rule books or reference sheets?

    8) At what point were victory conditions and/victory points explained and counted. I know you mentioned that this was something that occured after the game, but how explicit wree the goals in the initial handouts, and was any sort of weighting of the goals given?

    9) After orders were turned in, what was the procedure for figuring out the interactions? Was there any sort of smaller event (such as a table top battle) played out due to these interactions? How did that work?

    10) Do you have examples of actions attempted by the players not explicitly covered by the rules? How was this handled? Were there any explicit actions disallowed before the game?

    11) How were the random crises handles? Did they have any direct impact on the game? How did players react to those crisis events?
  3.  # 7
    Here are photos of the Friday session:

    Braunstein I, GenCon 2008
  4.  # 8
    • CommentAuthorTim Jensen
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2008
     # 9
    In response to komradebob's questions, regarding Braunstein 4, without spoiling the game for future players:

    1) The characters didn't come with any personality of their own. They did not have stats or mechanical distinction. One character had a terrible secret that would destroy him politically, but we didn't know who.

    2) The miniatures were just used to denote positions of our units and characters on the board.

    3) The per-turn order sheets were pretty straightforward...you listed each of your unit's current position, the position they were moving to (if any) and what they were supposed to do once they got there (like arrest somebody or defend themselves).

    4) Dave was the only referee needed.

    5) About six. The first turns took a while, but play sped up as the players figured out how to apply and resist tactics.

    6) Dave asked some players to roll a d8 a couple of times, presumably to determine if they got shot or managed to evade detection.

    7) There were no written rules for the players; some of us kept notes.

    8) Each character had a short set of objectives that had to be met in order to score points, and the popularity contest was tallied afterward. I don't know if any of the goals were weighted.

    9) Dave would consult the orders for each character, and move the appropriate miniatures on the board. I'm not sure if smaller events were resolved the same way or not, but there were several secret meetings between the ref and several players.

    10) This is where the best fun of the game lies, so I'd rather not spoil it for you. Some actions were prohibited beforehand.

    11) The other events were handled as extra turns by NPCs (This game was when the terms 'player character' and non-player character' originated, btw). We players had to deal with them as best we could.
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2008
     # 10
    Posted By: Tim Jensen2) The miniatures were just used to denote positions of our units and characters on the board.


    Could you tell me a bit more about what the board was like? Was it map style, 2D? Did it cover the whole area, or were there some areas blown up to more detail? Was movement based on "areas", measured movement, simple description or something else entirely?

    5) About six. The first turns took a while, but play sped up as the players figured out how to apply and resist tactics.

    Could you talk a bit about that bolded part or give an example?
    6) Dave asked some players to roll a d8 a couple of times, presumably to determine if they got shot or managed to evade detection.

    If you were involved with any dice-roling personally, could you break it down a bit? For example, did Dave give any further instructions or indications of what dice results would indicate prior to the roll? Was more than one person ever involved in a roll or perhaps a competitive roll-off?

    Really, anything you could add on this would be great.

    7) There were no written rules for the players; some of us kept notes.

    Did you notice if Dave appeared to be using any GM-only type reference materials? Any charts or notes?

    8) Each character had a short set of objectives that had to be met in order to score points, and the popularity contest was tallied afterward. I don't know if any of the goals were weighted.

    Were there any values you were directly aware of in relation to the character goals ( such as Victory points or similar), or order of priority to the goals?

    9) Dave would consult the orders for each character, and move the appropriate miniatures on the board. I'm not sure if smaller events were resolved the same way or not, but there were several secret meetings between the ref and several players.

    If you engaged in one of these, could you describe it what occured in rough terms (without spoiling the scenario)? Info sharing? Minor actions by characters that didn't require full orders? Also, when did these occur? For example, while resolving orders, were these engaged in, or only during the time between resolution of orders?

    Also, am I correct that _only_ the GM moved the minis, or if players did so, only under the GM's direction or presence to confirm any issues that cropped up?
    10) This is where the best fun of the game lies, so I'd rather not spoil it for you. Some actions were prohibited beforehand.

    Fair enough about keeping the actual scenario info under your hat! Would it be possible for you to create something similar however? I'm trying to get an idea of what form such a prohibition might take and the sort of thing it might cover. For example, a moral constraint, a talent constraint, a political constraint...

    11) The other events were handled as extra turns by NPCs (This game was when the terms 'player character' and non-player character' originated, btw). We players had to deal with them as best we could.


    I'd not heard anything about NPCs, well, ever, actually. Did you observe how these were activated? How did players interact with them? For example, did Dave take on a traditional GM role and play conversations out in secret meetings? Did events seem to be random, or programmed in some fashion?, Could NPC related events only be dealt with in or after the resolution of orders, or could they occur while players were off scheming, and interrupt that interaction?


    Thanks for all the info Tim! ( and everyone). This isn't strictly curiosity, as I'd like to put on something like this myself, but I'm curious how this original one is handled.
  5.  # 11
    My answers are for Braunstein I, which I suspect is quite a bit different than Braunstein IV. I'm also checking with Major Wesely to see if it's okay to post scans of the characters and maps.

    Posted By: komradebob1) Beyond the briefings, what were characters like? Were they described by any sort of numerical ratings/stats. Any special rules by charactre? Metagame abilities?

    No stats at all. No stats anywhere in the game actually.

    My impression was that descriptive text in the character background would influence the referee's decisions. For example my character was listed as being captain of the school fencing team and I was determined to get Student B in a duel so I could humiliate him. There was no stat that said I had a better chance of winning, but I figured Major Wesely would factor that kind of thing in when he made ad hoc rulings (rule of thumb: there are no rules so everything is an ad hoc ruling).

    2) In what fashion were the miniatures used (expect picky follow-up questions ...)

    None at all in our game. Major Wesely said that in the original Braunstein I they were used on a tabletop map to track character locations.

    3) You mentioned order sheets. What were these like, how were they used, and how often were these turned in?

    No order sheets in Braunstein I

    4) Did Wesely act as the only GM, or were there other official helpers during play?

    Just Wesely, and since he could only interact with X people at a time he didn't see a huge portion of the game.

    At one point I went out to conference with him on the balcony and he started to give me an update on the ditches I had been sadly sent to dig, and I had to stop him and say "nope, that's old news, I got promoted to Lieutenant and given a squad of soldiers to round up French sympathizers." So you could argue that no one really saw the big picture all the time.

    5) Approximately how many turns were played, and how long did these take to resolve?

    No distinct turns at all. Completely free form.

    6) Actually, what method was used for resolution or resolutions?

    Major Wesely just decided results. At one point I was scouring the city for Student B with my goon squad, bribing tavern owners to be on the lookout for him, but it was just up to Wesely whether I found him or not.

    7) You mentioned the rules were explained verbally. What did you have in the way of rule books or reference sheets?

    No rules. We each had a map handout showing the city and our own character briefing.

    8) At what point were victory conditions and/victory points explained and counted. I know you mentioned that this was something that occured after the game, but how explicit wree the goals in the initial handouts, and was any sort of weighting of the goals given?

    Everybody had objectives on their character sheets, and during the wrap-up Wesely laid out how it all turned out and how well everyone did, weaving everything back together and narrating the story that emerged so we all had some sense of the big picture.

    10) Do you have examples of actions attempted by the players not explicitly covered by the rules? How was this handled? Were there any explicit actions disallowed before the game?

    We moved around the room and balcony to represent zones in the game world (the far left corner of the room is the jail, etc) but this turned fuzzy pretty fast.

    At one point Major Wesely did scold someone for sitting down and chatting with someone when they were supposed to still be isolated in jail, but I think they had already gotten out he just didn't know it. That was the exception rather than the norm.

    11) How were the random crises handles? Did they have any direct impact on the game? How did players react to those crisis events?

    There weren't random events in Braunstein I, more scripted or timed events (the bells ring to signal the approaching French, the Prussian troops arrive, etc).
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2008
     # 12
    Okay, that is enormously helpful!

    Thanks!
    • CommentAuthorzoatebix
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2008
     # 13
    First, a cry for help:
    I lost Sandy's business card, could someone whisper his contact information at me or link to his website or something?

    Second, what I'm doing in this thread:
    I was the factory and radio station owner at Saturday's Braunstein 4 game, and pretty much did everything I could to make the minister of information's life difficult by making up stories of fake AP reporters and foreign infiltration into the top levels of our military and such. That's not a spoiler, those things weren't part of the scenario. The following might contain spoilers, so I'll turn the font color white or something when they come up.

    Besides owning things, I had two other things on my sheet. Only one of them came up in play, and that was only with the referee. I managed to keep my stash of illegal foreign currency a secret to pretty much everybody. The other stuff on my sheet had to do with the various Unions, but without anyone playing those roles, I had less wheeling and dealing to do than intended.

    Third, some answers:
    Could you tell me a bit more about what the board was like?
    Braunstein 4's map was a regular grid on brown paper, and it covered the whole area. It was 2D, hand-drawn, the squares were 12cm on a side, maybe less, and movement was based on number of squares, though players with private cars and such could pretty much go where they wanted if no one was trying to stop them.

    Did you notice if Dave appeared to be using any GM-only type reference materials? Any charts or notes?
    Yes, he had a big stack of notes.

    Were there any values you were directly aware of in relation to the character goals ( such as Victory points or similar), or order of priority to the goals?
    I had no idea what the victory point value of anything was. All I was told that I had real, foreign currency that should have been turned over to the treasury, and that if I recognized the Factory Workers' Union (I think, I'm working without notes), I would have to share victory with the leader of the Peasant's Workers' Union. And since we didn't have enough players for either of those roles...

    I'll post more later, I hope!
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2008
     # 14
    Thanks zoatebix!
    That sounds like a great game. The spoilers crack me up, too.

    Does anyone have contact info for Wesely?

    Has anyone sent a link to this thread to him?

    Like I said, I'm interested in organizing something similar to this for the local gamers, and I'd like as many hints from the experts as I can dig up.
  6.  # 15
    More Braunstein stuff, including scans of player handouts from the 2008 games and recreations of the original handouts from the game 40 years ago:

    http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/106/braunstein-memories/
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2008
     # 16
    Those handout pages are gold.
  7.  # 17
    More documents for posterity: I got the text of the other handouts from Major Wesely and added them to the page. All the characters from Braunstein I are there but a few from Braunstein IV are missing. Also includes some more commentary from Major Wesely on how the game played out.
    • CommentAuthorPaul T.
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2008
     # 18
    There's a recording of this?

    But... how can you record something where there are many, many conversations and what-not happening throughout the room, all at the same time?
  8.  # 19
    The recording hasn't been posted anywhere (that I know of) so I have no idea how it actually came out.

    The seminar started and ended with lectures from Major Wesely covering the history of the original Braunstein games, introduction and setup for today's game, and then a summary/debriefing of what happened in today's game plus more about the rise and fall of TSR (including Gary getting ousted). Those parts probably came out fine, but I can't imagine the actual play will be legible. As you said, people all over the room talking all at once.