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    • CommentAuthorCaesar_X
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2008
     # 1
    This was my second time playing Fiasco; Jason Morningstar's game-in-progress that I describe as "Coen Brothers: the RPG". My last time was in North Carolina last month and it was a hoot.

    So I brought the game to the Bay Area crowd. And after some difficult early scenes (which happened the last time as well), things really kicked off.

    You can read all of the content in the first two posts, or skip to my last post to read what we liked and did not like about the game.

    --

    SETUP:

    Players (the positions will give you a sense of where we sat at the table compared to the cards between us):
    SW: Chris Bennett (Leonard; Animal entertainer)
    NW: Karen Twelves (Hannah; Asst to Dean Whitaker, Roger's rival)
    NE: Robert Earley-Clark (Roger Hutchings; Health Inspector)
    SE: Chris Peterson (Ching Li; Entertainer


    Cards (the cards are placed in-between pairs of players sitting next to each other, instead of in front of each character):
    West: (Between Chris B and Karen)
    -Romance: Former spouses
    -Weapon: Leopard

    North: (Karen and Robert)
    -Relationship: Community: Appointed officials
    -Need: To get respect
    -Location: Working Class Neighborhood

    East: (Robert and Chris P.)
    -Relationship: Community: Radicals
    -Need: To get even: With American and what it has turned you into

    South: (Chris P. and Chris B.)
    -Relationship: Work: Current co-workers
    -Location: Chinatown: Bing Ching Union Gambling Hall


    SCORE:

    Scene 1: Hannah arrives home to her empty tenement only to find that Roger is helping a repo guy to remove her furniture. We also find out that this was in revenge for Hannah getting Leonard's leopard (Sylvia) put in the zoo. A fight ensues and Hannah convinces the pair to leave her grandmother's couch and take something else. As they leave, Hannah removed a pouch of diamonds from inside of the couch and hides them behind her medicine cabinet next to her gun.

    2: Meeting at the gambling hall, the radical Roger is trying to convince Ching Li to go on strike against the hall. But really he wants to find out when
    their payroll gets taken to the bank so he can rob the place. Ching Li lies and tells him "Tuesday". We also find out that there is an older Chinese woman
    (Mrs. Chin) who runs the gambling hall. Leonard is also there with his monkeys (the alternative animal act), but he doesn't hear about the robbery.

    3. Leonard meets with Roger to scheme on getting Sylvia out of the zoo. They success and now Leonard has his star attraction back.

    4. Hannah convinces Dean Whitaker that they need to close down the Bing Ching for health violations. Roger walks by the office and overhears the conversation, finding out the bust is going to happen on...Tuesday!

    5. Hannah gets a hold of some of Rogers papers, proving that he has been taking illegal payments.

    6. Roger and Leonard meet at Hannah's apartment when she isn't there to make plans to take down the gambling hall together. Leonard leaves Sylvia in the bathroom for the time being.

    7. Ching Li files a complaint at City Hall that there are other "private" shows going on underneath the backstage area. Roger overhears this conversation as well.

    8. Leonard is at the hall, looking for a place to stash his monkeys before their next act. He convinces another entertainer named Lilu to show him the secret entrance to the tunnel under the backstage, which is being used as a highway for slave trading. Chinese girls brought into the US as "entertainers" are being traded for white prostitutes.

    9. Hannah comes home, hears the leopard in her bathroom, and calls the White Palace Theatre, where Leonard *said* that he worked.

    Players chose to define the scene 8 times, and the outcome only once (I did it just to experiment with the mechanic).

    --

    After we divided up and rolled the dice, we had additional information on each card:

    West: (Between Chris B and Karen)
    -Romance: Former spouses
    -Weapon: Leopard
    (Score: Rage: they are coming with blood in their eyes!)

    North: (Karen and Robert)
    -Relationship: Community: Appointed officials
    -Need: To get respect
    -Location: Working Class Neighborhood
    (Score: Someone dies and it's your fault!)

    East: (Robert and Chris P.)
    -Relationship: Community: Radicals
    -Need: To get even: With American and what it has turned you into
    (Score: Arrival: an unwelcome newcomer)

    South: (Chris P. and Chris B.)
    -Relationship: Work: Current co-workers
    -Location: Chinatown: Bing Ching Union Gambling Hall
    (Score: Cross paths)
    • CommentAuthorCaesar_X
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2008
     # 2
    THE TILT:

    10. Someone is coming to town to demand money from Roger that he was given for "the cause". It's a Russian named Vladimir, and he wants the money by Monday
    or else!

    11. The young Lilu turns out to be the power behind the Bing Ching, not Mrs. Chin. Lilu and Ching Li get into it, and the accountant Ben Ho drags poor Ching Li down to the tunnel and dumps her with the other girls stuck down there.

    12. Leonard goes to Hannah's apartment and walks into the bathroom to retrieve his leopard. Leonard looks behind the medicine cabinet and takes Hannah's gun. He fears Hannah getting the diamonds from him, so he forces Sylvia to swallow them!

    13. Followup scene in the hall; Hannah comes after Leonard when she finds her stuff gone as he is walking down the stairs. The old lady on the first floor opens her door and Sylvia goes after her cats, badly mauling the old lady. In desperation, Leonard shoots his leopard in the head to save the old lady's life, but the bullet goes through and straight into the old lady's heart. A panicky Leonard grabs the dead carcass of his beloved animal and drags it down the stairs, not realizing that Sylvia had spit out the bad of diamonds on the floor as she died.

    14. Outside the gambling hall, Roger tracks down Leonard, who is carrying the dead leopard in a bag. Leonard convinces Roger to come inside to the empty kitchen and cut open Sylvia's stomach. And when the diamonds are missing, Leonard suspects Roger of pocketing them and beats him unconscious, taking a vicious slash to the leg first.

    15. Ching Li wakes up, bound in an alcove off the tunnel. She is tied to other Chinese women and they are being watched over by a guard (Wing Pow) with a gun and a paperback western. Ching Li is desperate to get away, so she tells Wing Pow about the upcoming raid. And he drags her upstairs to talk to the boss.

    16. Leonard waits outside Hannah's apartment until after the cops leave, and then goes after Hannah for the diamonds. He slaps her around, and when she runs into the kitchen for a knife, he runs straight into the knife and cuts his stomach open.

    17. Hannah calls Dean Wittaker and wants him to raid the hall now. Dean tells her she knows all the contacts to make it happen anyway and let's her have her wish.

    Players chose to define the scene 5 times, and the outcome 3 times.

    --

    We divided up and rolled the dice again, and added additional information on each card:

    West: (Between Chris B and Karen)
    -Romance: Former spouses
    -Weapon: Leopard
    (Score: Rage: they are coming with blood in their eyes!)
    (The Tilt: A horrible nightmare!)

    North: (Karen and Robert)
    -Relationship: Community: Appointed officials
    -Need: To get respect
    -Location: Working Class Neighborhood
    (Score: Someone dies and it's your fault!)

    East: (Robert and Chris P.)
    -Relationship: Community: Radicals
    -Need: To get even: With American and what it has turned you into
    (Score: Arrival: an unwelcome newcomer)
    (The Tilt: Fat times ahead!)

    South: (Chris P. and Chris B.)
    -Relationship: Work: Current co-workers
    -Location: Chinatown: Bing Ching Union Gambling Hall
    (Score: Cross paths)
    (The Tilt: Fat time ahead!)

    --

    THE AFTERMATH:

    After some quick montages, we ended up with these epilogues:

    Hannah: Got the diamonds, but was horribly disfigured by a monkey attack.

    Roger: Got away with the gambling hall cash during the raid, only to be met outside by Vladimir who "relieves" him of the money for the cause.

    Ching Li: Escaped out an alleyway during the raid on a bike with another boy.

    Leonard: Drug himself over to the phone and called the cops to try and pin the murder of the old lady on Hannah, only to die of his wounds.
    • CommentAuthorCaesar_X
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2008
     # 3
    PLAYTEST NOTES:

    What We Liked:
    -The shared links between the characters.
    -The way the characters were made at the beginning.
    -The montages at the end.
    -The three act structure.
    -The implied characters were a big hit.
    -Digging deeper into some starting elements on the cards and leaving others open for interpretation.
    -The plot always seemed to be moving forward. I think this was key.
    -It was easy to put your character into difficult situations.
    -Random elements were cool.

    What We Disliked:
    -One of the players wanted to roll the dice more during the game.
    -Not enough Aftermath outcomes; both pairs got the same element, which was a bummer.
    -Seems like the Aftermaths are either horrible outcomes or great things. Maybe some shades of gray?
    -It's tough to do parallel scenes as the plot is constantly moving forward.
    -The game doesn't seem to support flashbacks, which could be interesting.
    -Once you have had a scene, you have to wait awhile until your next scene. And by then there may have been some things defines to have happened to your character.
    -NPCs can start to take too much power in the game. The rules barely mention NPCs, and it would be good to give clear direction that the characters should be the real stars in the game.
    -The rules should state to keep away from scenes where two NPCs are in conflict.

    Questions/Suggestions:
    -Can you define a scene that doesn't have a character in it?
    -Someone wants to be able to flick dice over to the relationship out of his reach because they thought that was interesting at the time.
    -What if you moved the dice over to a relationship and then rolled all of them at the end?

    Conclusion: the game has really improved with Jason's changes from version 1.4 to 1.7, and I look forward to playtesting it again! There are still some issues with the outcomes and the dice mechanic, but the Aftermath has been tightened up quite a bit. In both games I have played in, there has been an obvious tipping point (during The Tilt) which has starting the story on a downward spiral. Which makes for great collaborative storytelling.
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2008
     # 4
    Some thoughts:

    First off, I liked this game enough to badger Caesar_X, trying to find out how to get a copy of the rules to test with some non-gamer pals.

    Having said that, some thoughts:

    1) Should players be able to see the listed possible outcomes from the relationship/place/object etc rolls?

    2) I differ a bit on this:
    -NPCs can start to take too much power in the game. The rules barely mention NPCs, and it would be good to give clear direction that the characters should be the real stars in the game.


    Actually, my feeling was that some of the characters defined in play (NPCs) were actually interesting enough that I wanted to play with them more than the initially created characters.

    3) Some of the relationships are stronger than others. Ex-spouses is pretty strong, appointed officials less so. Also, having an Appointed officials relationship on one side and a Radicals on the other side was...weird.

    4) Should there be some way to "recover" dice when players just aren't "feeling" one or more connections? I appreciate that they're there to help generate content, but some of that stuff turned out to not really inspire much, so it really wasn't at the core of the game we played.

    5) Should non-relationship connections be stuck on those same cards? I can see relationships remaining a core connectuion between characters, but it seems like the other stuff should "float" more.
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2008
     # 5
    Oh yeah, and there was some weirdness from scenes that didn't end in conflict, mainly in the wway it meant that the player whose turn it was didn't get any die for that scene.
  1.  # 6
    Wow, thanks guys!

    That's a lot of information to process. I'm relieved to see the same difficulties cropping up in various sessions, so I know I'm addressing the right things. In version 1.8:

    A non conflict/color/monologue/whatever scene comes with a perk - you get to grab an already allocated die and re-assign it to another character (even yours). So there's no penalty for taking them and a nice benefit.

    The Tilt is totally reworked; there are only two elements to it rather than one per player, and there is a strong element of choice (it's basically another 36-item Detail list). Similarly the Aftermath is also reworked. Now you are rewarded by the degree to which you stray from zero in either direction (zero being horrific fucking disaster and 9+ being sunshine and roses and basically impossible to reach).

    I'll add some verbiage about what constitutes a good scene - basically you want to keep hammering on protagonist relationships as hard as you can, with Needs as flags. Ideally NPCs are just collateral damage, I think.

    I'm so glad you tried out the 1913 set and got the leopard in there! A personal favorite. I haven't played it myself, yet.

    How long did your game last in real time? It seems like you got a little silly - did it play that way? What was the overall tone?
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2008 edited
     # 7
    How can you go wrong with a Weaponized leopard?

    Actually, some minor silliness aside, it played fairly serious IMO, which pretty much matches with most rpgs I've played. I think total playtime was around 4 hours or so.
  2.  # 8
    My other favorite (which you sadly overlooked) from the 1913 set:

    Untoward Object: The pickled head of a murderer in a jar

    Good times.
    • CommentAuthorCaesar_X
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2008
     # 9
    Posted By: komradebobI think total playtime was around 4 hours or so.


    Yes, I forgot to note that we played a total of four hours, and spent some time debriefing afterward. About half of it was setup and The Score. Then we took a lunch break and played The Tilt and The Aftermath.

    Posted By: Jason MorningstarI'll add some verbiage about what constitutes a good scene - basically you want to keep hammering on protagonist relationships as hard as you can, with Needs as flags.


    I think the Needs were the weakest part of the game for me. In that we as players were not necessarily pushing the Needs as they were not necessarily matching up with what happened at the table. I agree that some more definition would help here.

    I also wanted to note that I moderated the setup slightly incorrectly. I thought that each pair was supposed to have a well-defined relationship before moving to the Needs, Locations, etc. So our content ended up more relationship-heavy than it normally would.

    I would echo Robert's comments about the relatively serious tone. The "Chinese/White Slavery" sideline was strange. But the leopard was the element that really threw things into the weird. In a good way.

    It's easy to play this game, because every time I got into a stressful game situation I thought about what I would do if I had much more passion than good sense. And then I acted on it.
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2008
     # 10
    It's easy to play this game, because every time I got into a stressful game situation I thought about what I would do if I had much more passion than good sense. And then I acted on it.


    Shoot comrade, that should be advice for _every_story-game.
  3.  # 11
    You guys also played with 18 dice, it looks like. You had an extra detail floating around, anyway.

    I'm not sure that your way of setting up the situation is necessarily bad, although it isn't how I do it. For me it's more fun to have these loose relationships, and details informing them, and then ask "what are the connections?"
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2008 edited
     # 12
    Also, weirdly, this is yet another SG that I'd like to see come in a "placemat" format.

    I hope you don't take that badly, Jason. I just mean that I could see most of the rules and procedures easily fitting on a placemat sized sheet for eaxch player, with room for dice and writing up details on either edge, leaving the examples and how-toos in a seperate text. Which might be kinda nifty.
    • CommentAuthorCaesar_X
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2008
     # 13
    Posted By: Jason MorningstarYou guys also played with 18 dice, it looks like. You had an extra detail floating around, anyway.

    We played with 16 dice. Any errors came from me typing up what I saw on the cards:)

    We ended up with more scenes because not all of them ended in conflicts.
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2008
     # 14
    Posted By: Caesar_X
    Posted By: Jason MorningstarYou guys also played with 18 dice, it looks like. You had an extra detail floating around, anyway.

    We played with 16 dice. Any errors came from me typing up what I saw on the cards:)

    We ended up with more scenes because not all of them ended in conflicts.


    Did we do the die shift thing? I don't recall what happened with Chris P's scene that didn't end in conflict.
  4.  # 15
    Posted By: komradebobAlso, weirdly, this is yet another SG that I'd like to see come in a "placemat" format.

    I've toyed with landscape 17x11" for other projects but never followed through. Maybe a downloadable play aid?
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2008
     # 16
    Posted By: Jason Morningstar
    Posted By: komradebobAlso, weirdly, this is yet another SG that I'd like to see come in a "placemat" format.

    I've toyed with landscape 17x11" for other projects but never followed through. Maybe a downloadable play aid?

    I think I might try to mock one up the old fashioned way and see how it looks.
  5.  # 17
    I'd like to see what your vision for such a thing would be. Even a pencil sketch would be instructive - what needs to be on there, and what doesn't? Is it a one-time thing that replaces the index cards? Does it include all the rules? Does it include all the tables to play a specific set?
    • CommentAuthorkomradebob
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2008
     # 18
    I'm thinking of a 11 x 17, landscape format. Down the right side, maybe mocked up as film frames, room for the relationships, locations, etc, for the person to your right. (Sideways, so the person to the right can read it and write on it more easily and possibly record it, even?)

    If possible, the setting specific rolls down the left side, so that everyone has a copy they can look at while choosing how to use dice.

    Across the top, space for character name and general character type, although possible up side down so that it's readable by the other players. Maybe a space too for film title.

    Whatever other room is left is a quick summary of each stage of play, with a description of that stage and basic directions on using dice, maybe even working in the Tilt stuff. Maybe a smallish place for holding dice, too, on each appropriate area.

    The middle and right sides would be mostly standard, so if there was a way to make a standardized format for the setting specific rolls, I guess you could just switch them in and out to make an electronic copy for each setting. Then it's just zap! down at Kinkos, four copies and boom, you're ready to go.
  6.  # 19
    Hey guys, one more procedural question - how weird was the "last die" thing? When you're creating the situation, the last die is predetermined and not a choice. It happens again at the end of the Tilt. Is that loss of choice a problem? It feels vaguely unsatisfying to me.

    One solution would be to say that the last remaining die is wild and can be any number.