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      CommentAuthorMatthijs
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2009
     # 1
    (I'm sure this has been covered before, but it's still pretty open territory, as far as I know. Still, cool links are appreciated).

    So, system matters. It affects play. Now, we all probably agree that setting matters, too. I'm thinking about what functions an RPG setting has. Specifically, how does it affect player choices and actions/behavior?

    This is kind of a fuzzy topic, because the answers are so obvious. However, game designers and GMs still sometimes make settings that don't actually work in play. I think that's because we're not always aware of what functions a setting often needs to have*.

    The first things I can think of are:
    - Setting informs choice of character. In Pendragon, you're not likely to want to play a female character, since women in that setting tend to sit around and wait to be rescued. In a Heortling game in HeroQuest, you most probably want to play a Heortling - not a Lunar invader.
    - Setting informs inter-character relations. In Lord of the Rings games, there will be tension between elves and dwarves. In Vampire games, members of different clans have specific attitudes towards each other.
    - Setting informs character portrayal. A 1920s dilettante in Call of Cthulhu speaks and acts differently from a caped crusader in a superhero game.
    - Setting defines a range of possible situations and scenarios. Call of Cthulhu's horror conspiracies make for good investigation games, but not for tactical games (weak characters with too little information about the enemy makes for bad tactics) or slapstick (it can be done, but it's a deliberate break with genre). Price of Freedom is good for sabotage and combat scenarios, but not really the best setting for scenarios about solving childhood problems or clue-hunting murder mysteries.

    If a setting doesn't fulfil these functions, I believe the group often steps in and defines the missing parts, more or less without thinking about it. "So what does my Moonbunny Assassin think of your Cantaloupe Warrior? Hm, it doesn't say in the book. They're probably rivals, since they're both aiming for the same market. Perhaps they've got an ancient feud or something? Yeah, that's cool."

    What other functions does setting have in games, would you say?

    * I say "often", not "always". Every game is different; the way Lacuna uses its setting, for example, doesn't completely fit with my thoughts on what a setting needs to do.
    • CommentAuthormadunkieg
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2009
     # 2
    Setting provides inspiration, encouraging creativity. It is a starting point to which I may add or modify as I see fit (much the way I see rules, but rules I tend to focus on modifying, while setting I tend to focus on adding to). Setting gives a game designer the chance to use language that evokes a bit more emotion than what the rules likely use. Setting provides the seeds of ideas which may be expanded into great games that fit the group, but may not fit every group. Earthdawn seemed to do really well at this.

    Setting also provides ideas in a pinch. We've all been there, that time when you've got to think of something to fill the silence. The characters just walked into a bar and you want it to be not "just another bar," or whatever the situation needs. Most often this happens when you're not doing something directly in line with the adventure goals, but still of interest to everyone (like, go figure, meeting up at the bar). Setting helps you break the brain freeze by providing some ideas that can be grabbed and dropped in. Shadowrun was great for this, both with contacts and the many places listed in the city books.

    No, I'm not a huge FASA fan, but I'll express appreciation where it's due.
  1.  # 3
    There's a thread running at Cultures of Play that seems pretty pertinent to this, Matthjis. SEveral very interesting issues being raised in regards to Setting and the spectrums of construction play-discovery play, information-inspiration, canon, etc.
    • CommentAuthorLogos7
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2009
     # 4
    So wouldn't the short way of saying setting does... be

    Setting promotes orthodoxy of colour?

    As far as inspiration or creativity , that only seems to work to the degree that setting disallows other stuff. It gives you a starting point because it restricts so many things. I know that I cannot be a spess mahreen in a western game which gets me to the relavent colour bits faster?
    • CommentAuthorPaul T.
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2009
     # 5
    I'd say setting plays two really important roles for me:

    1. It tells me (and the group) what kinds of situation, issues, premises, etc, are NOT possible or NOT appropriate. It whittles down the range of possible play material on a larger scale.

    2. On a smaller scale, it gives me basic material to make issues and situations out of, for individual scenes or adventures/scenarios.

    For example, if there's a conflict between two cultures in the setting, and they're fighting over the last oil well, that gives me various possible situations (like "the military leader tries to take the well by force" or "someone decides to destroy the well before the fighting gets out of hand").

    It's notable to me that many, many published settings do not do much to achieve either 1) or 2) (at least for me).
    •  
      CommentAuthorMatthijs
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2009
     # 6
    Posted By: Paul T.It's notable to me that many, many published settings do not do much to achieve either 1) or 2) (at least for me).


    This is exactly what I'm thinking about, too. It seems to me that many people - like myself - fall into the trap of thinking "setting, aaahhh, that's easy, I'll just write about a bunch of countries and races and stuff and put in a little bit of fiction to make it look cool". However, for a setting to be useful, it needs to have some pretty specific things in place. I'm trying to figure out what those things are.

    And, as you're saying, one of those things is good situation/conflict/issue material. "The harmonious tree-people of Urth live together in joy and peace" is all very nice, but it sucks as a setting*. There's nothing to do, no conflict to latch on to.


    * For most games. There will always be groups and campaigns that differ from the norm.
    • CommentAuthormadunkieg
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2009 edited
     # 7
    Setting helps people who do not like to design games to play the game. Yes, I know this is a bit broader than what you want, but whenever you put a thread like this up in a place frequented by people who design games, settings tend to take a lot of bashing and get seen only as limits, so the counter-point is needed.

    A game designer tends to see a setting as infringing upon their ability to design something using the rules. There is no actual infringement or restriction imposed by the presence of a setting, an individual who is so inclined is free to change or add anything. This is a perception that was constructed through a mixture of poor game design simply forgetting to include details useful for play (early D&D) and rpg marketing (with Steve Jackson's GURPS being the biggest perpetrator).

    So, having a setting helps reach out to players who do not want (or cannot, likely for life/time limitations) to design their own. This also suggests that setting can help in marketing the game, as it is hopefully somewhat evocative.
    • CommentAuthorThanuir
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2009
     # 8
    Conflicts. Setting enables some, makes others marginal, and puts some on the forefront. (Much like system does.) Consider: In Nobilis, lord Entropy kills Nobles who are found to be guilty of loving or killing. Hence, situations where someone might want to love or kill another are all inherently charged. DitV, where the characters can just stroll in and start fixing things often with the support of the people involved.

    More specifically, avenues of conflict. There's two characters who disagree for whatever reason. What can they do about it?

    Justification: In many D&D worlds there are ancient cultures that were magically advanced but have now fallen from their glory. Their ruins still litter the landscape. And it is good, for where would adventurers find better dungeons where ancient treasures still lie unscavenged? Ancient ruins are an easy and functional way of making crawling in dungeons possible. Vampire clans and webs of counter-counter-counter-plots. Amber and deadly soap opera. (The city of Amber provides motivation and the inherent qualities of characters make killing them difficult; the shadows offer endless opportunities for scheming.)

    Games with many themes: Consider old D&D. Character roams in dungeons and ruins until gaining sufficient wealth, power and influence to build a stronghold. This does not work in quite as straightforward way in, say, Shadowrun, even though the core activity there is highly similar to dungeoncrawling. Unexplored wilderness makes it possible to change the theme of the game on the fly without making it awkward.

    Personally, I think that setting design, as opposed to world building, is a neglected art. There's plenty of theory and focus on building rules to enable and even enforce a given style of play, but very little on constructing settings to do the same. (There is plenty of discussion and material on building a world, which is somewhat analogous to making realistic rules; a useful skill, but not all-encompassing.)
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2009
     # 9
    Setting sells books.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMatthijs
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2009
     # 10
    The "ideal setting" (can't come up with a better term right now) would be one where you could play the game straight from the setting, no rules. You'd know what kind of situations to set up, how to play characters and NPCs... Could game procedures be taught through setting? (Are they, and I've just forgotten about it?)
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2009
     # 11
    Posted By: MatthijsCould game procedures be taught through setting? (Are they, and I've just forgotten about it?)
    Didn't Orkworld combat work something like that?
    •  
      CommentAuthorccreitz
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2009
     # 12
    Posted By: Josh Roby
    Posted By: MatthijsCould game procedures be taught through setting? (Are they, and I've just forgotten about it?)
    Didn't Orkworld combat work something like that?
    Doesn't Call of Cthulhu also work like that? Everyone knows, when you wind up the Cthulhu Machine, exactly where it's going.
  2.  # 13

    Setting is a part of Situation. It adds context.

    Example 1:

    You have 10 dice that you can roll, total, in the course of the game. So do I.

    If you roll a die higher than mine, you win! If you roll a 6 and I roll a 1, I win.

    You roll. You roll a 4.

    I roll. I roll a 5.

    Do you roll another die and see if that one beats mine?

    Probably not. There's no reason.

    Or:

    Example 2:

    You have 10 dice that you can roll, total, in the course of the game. So do I.

    If you roll a die higher than mine, you win! If you roll a 6 and I roll a 1, I win.

    You are playing a Umran Wing Woman, a guardian of the monestary of Mount Udet, the home of The Piercer of Eyes.

    I am a Gnauget, a mendicant nun of an order that requires you to act as advocate to poor women with children.

    I am carrying with me a woman whose child is feverish and will die tonight if he doesn't get medical attention available only at Mount Udet.

    You are charged with keeping all humans away from The Piercer of Eyes.

    The Umran Wing Women are trained in the Harrier's Way, a martial art that gives its practitioners the ability to fly and strike with deadly force, in the interest of defending Mount Udet and those who would disturb the Piercer of Eyes.

    The Gnauget carry with them at all times a short staff, used in all of their medicinal, judicial, and martial practices.

    Now let's roll those dice.

    • CommentAuthortimfire
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2009 edited
     # 14
    Posted By: Joshua A.C. Newman

    Setting is a part of Situation.


    I know what you're saying here. Actually, pretty much everything that's been said thus far is really talking about how setting interacts with different elements of situation.

    But what I would say, if we conceptualize setting as something distinct from situation (as many people do), then setting has two functions: a) inform and maybe even define color, and b) inform situation.

    In its most basic form, "setting" is just pure color. If I want to play DnD in a "scifi setting", I just re-imagine the knight as a galactic guardian, the goblins' underground lair as the space pirates' home base on the planet Zebes, and the fire and ice spells as a grenade launcher and a freeze ray. Functionally it's the exact same game, it's just the descriptions that are different.

    But "setting" can also inform situation as well, meaning it sets up relationships and conflicts and such. The amount that the setting does this varies quite a lot from game to game, from a lot to none at all.

    There's no " setting should..." here, setting is just a tool for designers and players to use for different purposes. Sometimes you want to have all the pieces pre-wound so players can start the game running. Other times you want there to be holes that the players are forced to fill in-game.

    •  
      CommentAuthorMatthijs
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2009 edited
     # 15
    Posted By: timfireThere's no " setting should..." here, setting is just a tool for designers and players to use for different purposes. Sometimes you want to have all the pieces pre-wound so players can start the game running. Other times you want there to be holes that the players are forced to fill in-game.


    Complete agreement. Of course, as always, it helps to inform people what your intentions are - but as a designer, you can make a swiss cheese setting or a catapult (or whatever metaphor takes your fancy), whatever fits your game.
    • CommentAuthorThanuir
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009
     # 16
    But what I would say, if we conceptualize setting as something distinct from situation (as many people do), then setting has two functions: a) inform and maybe even define color, and b) inform situation.
    This is sometimes correct (I'd say that setting is also often part of system, if big model jargon is being thrown around), but not very useful, at least for me.

    Okay, setting informs situation. Are there any general rules or trends to that? What situations are best for what settings and what settings for what situations? Any elements to generally avoid or use?
    • CommentAuthorVernon R
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2009
     # 17
    I think the secret is that setting on it own doesnt do any of these things. Setting is just the board you put the pieces on. You have to deliberately concentrate on adding things to setting to make it usable. You need to put in situations that are full of conflict, you need to add color to make it feel alive, you need characters to take a stance on the situations placed in the setting.

    Setting itself is the stage, the events that happen on it are the play.