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EDIT: Ignore anything in this post and go here for details on the voluntary critique process.
Since work teams and critique is not a part of Little Game Chef due to anonymity, but since I really enjoy that aspect:
If you want, after the judging is completed, post a link to your game here, or send it to me if you can't get a host for it for some reason (though 1km1kt should work for you). You will have to commit to critiquing (at least) two other randomly selected games within a fixed time period, probably a week. In return, you will get your game critiqued by (at least) two other participants, similarly selected.
If you want to retain anonymity, either as author or critic, feel free to use me as a proxy - I won't tell.
More details to come. Feel free to ask any questions in this thread. -
Oh, and apologies to Andy for starting yet another LGC thread.
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Count me in. I said it in the last game chef, I'll repeat it now; feedback is the true prize.
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- CommentAuthorDestriarch
- CommentTimeMar 24th 2009
I'll try remember, hopefully I'll be able to find the thread again. I was planning on updating and expanding after the contest was over anyway since two pages really didn't allow for anywhere near the kind of detail I was hoping.
-Ash -
I think this is great.
Lachek, the games will all be available, while we're judging, at:
www.grahamwalmsley.net/littlegamechef/games
...which is the folder they're uploaded to. You can see some entries there now.
So I don't know if that changes the way you organise this. You might not need people to post links.
Also, I wonder if there's a way to do it without breaking anonymity? There would need to be some way for people to signal they wanted to take part in the reviewing process, without saying who they are.
Graham -
Oh cool - no linkage required then.
I like the idea of retaining anonymity throughout the critique process. Let's do this:
Once the contest deadline is up, I'll set up a Vanilla forum. Anyone who wants their game critiqued makes a new account, identifying or not (like, if I wanted to be identified as a critic or designer, I'd name my account 'lachek' or 'MikaelAndersson' - if I didn't, 'anon5' or 'InternetAsshole', perhaps). I'd make an intro thread and post the name of my game. Once the judging is over, I'll match up games with critics and whisper the names of the two games you're required to critique in your own thread.
Problem solved, I think. Let me know if my unsinkable plan has any obvious flaws. -
OK, this is totally your thing, but let me make one more suggestion.
Signing up for a Vanilla forum is quite a barrier to entry. How about, if someone wants their game reviewed, and is prepared to review games themselves, they tag "-review" on to their file name? So "LastDaysOfAtlantis-review.pdf".
Then you can post a list of who reviews what games, like this:- Author of Last Days of Atlantis, you're reviewing Desert Horses and Iceberg
- Author of Desert Horses, you're reviewing Iceberg and Darksea
People could write the reviews and post them once the judging's over.
Anyway, it's totally your call, but it's a suggestion.
Graham -
I'd rather not force people to sign up for yet another forum, Graham, but:
- They'd have to post "something" "somewhere" anyhow, right? In order to critique, I mean?
- I assume Andy doesn't want a dozen (or whatever) critique threads on SG (right Andy?)
- Compared with the actual critique work, signing up for a forum should be easy. Reading a GC game and writing good critique is hard. Consider it buy-in.
I thought about asking people to rename their submissions too, but then you'll have people forgetting to do it, and blah blah blah. I think this is cleaner. -
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CommentAuthorDavid Artman
- CommentTimeMar 24th 2009
Out of curiosity, why can't they just whisper in this thread, get their assignment via a whispered reply, and then post the critique as themselves, unwhispered? Does anyone really want to be an anonymous reviewer, or are you error-trapping for a non-issue (and if they do want anonymity for their critique, they can post it as a whisper and you can repost it as yourself, as mediator)? And since you're assigning reviews "randomly," it's not like my critique of Game X will out me as the author of Game Y (not that I care, but you want to error-trap for that as well, so...).
Even Graham's method of assigning reviews works fine for double anonymity, only requiring a whisper herein, to you, to say "Hey, I wrote Game X and I'm willing to get into the critique pool."
In closing, I'll go ahead and be an anecdotal example of someone who would NOT sign up for a forum just to have to do work critiquing, but WOULD volunteer to critique in exchange for some feedback here. -
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Posted By: lachekI assume Andy doesn't want a dozen (or whatever) critique threads on SG (right Andy?)
Yeah. I don't mind the "help me with my game" requests every now and then, or the explosion of activity around a design contest or venue, but I get sad when I see them bump out the gameplay threads, and make a small baby grumpy face.
So when I see a BUNCH of design threads on S-G...
At first I was like
But then I was all
-Andy
(yeah, if possible, just keep the review stuff in this one thread, and keep the discussion going. Another thought? Create a Google Group, which is really easy to set up, invite folks to, then close when its over). -
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CommentAuthorEero Tuovinen
- CommentTimeMar 24th 2009
Heh, one would almost think that the Forge weren't intended for this very purpose... -
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lots of people stay away from the forge on general principal (myself included)
Doesn't Ikm1kt have a forums (and requestible subforums) associated with it? -
Posted By: Logos7lots of people stay away from the forge on general principal (myself included)
Which is totally silly, as the aim of The Forge is just cohoperation between game designers. People should sign in to help it be what it should, instead of avoiding it thus somehow making it what it's not. ^__^;; -
Thanks for your input, everyone. I'll go with the method described here.
If you're curious as to why:- everyone wants the discussion to take place on their favourite forum
- everyone else hates that forum and has vowed never to go there like, ever
- the only forum everyone would be willing to use is Story Games, since the contest originated there
- but Andy doesn't want us to use Story Games for this purpose due to thread proliferation
- and besides, using any existing forum with existing accounts would destroy any possibility of anonymity, however minor that benefit may be
- doing all the critique for all the games in a single thread is nutty - last GC the discussion just in my own thread got out of hand
- if you're not willing to spend one lousy braindead minute to sign up for a forum, you're very unlikely to put in the comparatively massive amount of time and thought it takes to carefully read two games and write two good pieces of accompanying critique
- and besides, you signed up for a forum to participate in last year's Game Chef, didn't you?
If you have a really obscure reason you don't want to sign up for a new forum account, like, you're an international spy and you don't want to share your email address, or your browser crashes on sign-up forms, or you have an obsessive-compulsive disorder and this would cause you to relapse, or whatever, then whisper me in this thread and I'll make you a damn account manually :) -
- CommentAuthorDestriarch
- CommentTimeMar 25th 2009 edited
Posted By: rafu
Posted By: Logos7lots of people stay away from the forge on general principal (myself included)
Which is totally silly, as the aim of The Forge is just cohoperation between game designers.
No, I can understand people not wanting to go to the Forge because some people there can get a bit... how to put it without offending anyone unneccessarily... a bit too intellectual and over-analytical. I personally wouldn't want to discuss my game on the Forge because there's a lot of game theory I don't agree with, and I don't want to get into in-depth discussions about it over a silly little game I did just for fun. The over-technicality of the average forgeite, while good in some respects, is not something I'd enjoy, and I'm doing this contest for pure enjoyment.
I'd vote for the Yahoo Group idea if we were voting, and I'd also be happy with Graham's idea of putting the reviews in PDF with a suitable disclaimer and uploading them to the game submissions directory. That's what you're suggesting isn't it, Graham?
-Ash
*EDIT* If someone can suggest to me a forum code that I can use, which is as close to secure as possible against spam bots, then I'd be half-tempted to host a forum myself specifically for anyone who wanted to run an RPG contest. I can't host contests myself (I tried before and crashed out with depression halfway through and couldn't complete it - sorry to everyone who took part :( ) but it'd be no trouble to prepare forums for others to use so long as they self-policed it. But I think you're right; having to sign up for a new forum is likely to be a big barrier to entry for just one contest. -
I think what Graham was talking about was a method for people to announce whether they wanted to partake in critiquing by using a naming convention of their game submissions (correct me if I'm wrong, Graham). That method doesn't solve the problem of where the actual critique gets posted.
Yahoo Groups / Google Groups / Atropal Knitting Circles all require sign-ups, unless people have them already, in which case some people will be happy, other people will be sad, and some people will be annoyed because they have to sign up for new accounts anyway to retain anonymity.
So, hey, to participate in this voluntary critique process, you'll have to sign up for a short-lived forum, just like people had to do for GC'08. It'll take about a minute of your life.
Let's move on. -
- CommentAuthorDestriarch
- CommentTimeMar 25th 2009
Ah right, pardon my confusion I just downed a complete tin of Relentless. Or rather, I did just before making that last comment. -
So Mikael, this sounds cool. Can I still get to participate in this?
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- CommentAuthorTrey Greer
- CommentTimeMar 29th 2009
I would also like to participate. -
Posted By: wanmansouSo Mikael, this sounds cool. Can I still get to participate in this?
Absolutamundo! Critique forum will be coming -->.<-- shortly and the information will be posted here super-soon. -
Oh, and if you didn't submit an entry but you still want to comment on the games? AWESOME! Anyone can sign up for the forum (which will be forthcoming) and post critique, and I'm sure it'll be appreciated.
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Alright, we should be up and running. Excuse the URL, it's repurposed.
http://www.totrpg.com
To ease the account creation process, you can log in using your Google account if you have one, and there is no waiting time for approval. Please do not abuse.
Go to the forum, make your account, then find your game (listed in reverse alphabetical order).
Whisper to 'admin' in that thread if you'd like to participate in the critique process.
In a couple of days I will randomly select who critiques which games and whisper the results back to you.
If you have any specific areas you'd like your critics to focus on, announce it in your thread.
Read the Critique Guidelines sticky I stole from Ben.
Read the games.
Write kick-ass critiques and post them in the right threads.
I expect the whole process should be done in a couple of weeks from now.
Remember the forum won't stick around forever, so if you want to save any of the posts you'll need to copy them yourself before I take it down. You'll have a while, but not forever.
Finally, if you have any feedback on the forum setup, let me know - extensions and functions you can't live without, or whatever. Can't promise I'll implement them, but I'll consider it carefully. -
Groovy. I signed in (Google signin, booyah); looking forward to the feedback thing.
My rule, same as the last Game Chef: In addition to the two games I'm now obligated to review, I'll trade reviews on a one-for-one basis. I'm guaranteeing the first three; I may not have time to do more than 5 total, though. Anyone want to trade, hit me at pbeakley@gmail.com.
p. -
signing in there now
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Critique assignments will be posted this evening, EST. If you haven't signed up yet but would like to participate, well, get a move on. It might be possible to accomodate stragglers, so if you see this too late then please head on over, but I can't promise it'll work out smoothly if you don't drop your name in the hat today.
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Yeah! I signed up.
D -
By my count we have 23 games - a large majority - signed up, for a grand total of 46 critiques. Plus all the volunteer critiques and trades that's been offered, some already posted.
I love you guys!
Alright, off to do the randomization now. -
Critique assignments have been posted. See http://www.totrpg.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=38.
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Voluntary critique process deadline has been reached. I'll repurpose the site at http://www.totrpg.com in the very near future, so if you want any of your critiques retained please copy it off ASAP as I cannot guarantee its availability past April 16th (that's this Thursday, ladies and gentlemen).
I had fun! Thanks to everyone who participated. -
Gosh! Isn't there a way to backup the whole site? There's a lot to learn there, for anybody who has an interest in such things.
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Hey, thanks for doing this, by the way.
Graham -
Posted By: GrahamHey, thanks for doing this, by the way.
My pleasure. I got extra feedback for my game, plus the lovely little treat of working with the Vanilla forum software. Thanks for organizing the contest! -
Posted By: rafuGosh! Isn't there a way to backup the whole site? There's a lot to learn there, for anybody who has an interest in such things.
Ack! I'll think about it. Maybe I'll move it off into a subdirectory or something - I just don't want to be counted on to host it until the end of time. :p
To be safe, please copy off the critique you'd like to keep. -
Alright y'all, while http://www.totrpg.com is now home to David Artman & Co's awesome cover RPG design contest, I've moved ye ole critique threads into http://lgc.totrpg.com. There they will live until I get sick of them and go Godzilla on their ass.
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Awesome, Mikael! Thank you for doing what you're doing.
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