The Cult of the Designer/Creator/Whatever

edited August 2010 in Story Games
Inspired by this thread: what games have you played with their designers?

Some of my best friends are designers...but seriously.

This thread makes me uncomfortable.

I like seeing people be passionate about their creations and playing games with them. That is fun.

I also like seeing Carl Rigney and countless others/too many to name run the shit out of games at cons because they love them and love sharing them.

I'd like the idea of designers (just gamers who write) and podcasters (just gamers who have a mic) being put on pedestals to be kicked firmly in the junk. Hard.

Down with this kind of bullshit hierarchy.

Power to the players.
«13

Comments

  • I'm waiting for the inevitable "what designers have you shared a bed with?" thread.
  • Just because most designers and podcasters suck doesn't mean we shouldn't be fans of the skilled ones.
  • Posted By: KripplerJust because most designers and podcasters suck doesn't mean we shouldn't be fans of the skilled ones.
    Yeah...I...what?

    Being a fan of someone's work is not the problem, as I see it.
  • A gent doesn't play and tell!
  • I think you started this thread from selfish motives simply because you probably run most games better than their creators and just want to build a new hierarchy. ;-p

    I don't see or feel much of what you're talking about, Judd. Maybe it's just that you're a charismatic podcaster and feel uncomfortable personally with some of the attention you get at cons because you are also humble.

    One of many really neat things about this community is that we have the opportunity to sit down and play games with the people that made them. Or talk with them on forums.

    What kinds of activities/behaviors would you like to see more/less of that would mitigate some of these uncomfortable feelings?

    I know you don't want to drag designers or podcasters down. I tried to necro that awesome players thread a while back, but it didn't really take. Maybe we could start there. :)
  • I just read that thread, and was reminded, once again, on how insular and metaphorically incestuous indie game designers apparently are.

    I had like maybe 500 more words, but I decided to delete them, because it didn't seem relevant.
  • ndpndp
    edited August 2010
    Thanks Judd. I agree entirely.

    So here's a thing: people who have a lot in common tend to become friends, right? And people who are embarked on similar artistic agendas tend to talk to each other about what they're doing. I don't know why it's a surprise to anyone that a bunch of folks (myself included, of course) who are doing the same thing in the same geographical region know each other, like each other and play games with each other.

    I mean, I moved to Chicago and literally didn't know anyone in this city except one friend from high school (who's an actor), and four game designers that I've met through conventions. Why is it surprising that I'd hang out with those guys? And, y'know, play some games with them?

    Hold on, I have an idea for a thread. (edit) Its not like designers dont play with other people.
  • Posted By: T-BoyI just read that thread, and was reminded, once again, on how insular and metaphorically incestuous indie game designers apparently are.

    I had like maybe 500 more words, but I decided to delete them, because it didn't seem relevant.
    Insular? Come to Dexcon/Dreamation,Go Play X/Jiffycon, you can game with all of the indie RPG designers you can shake a stick at.

    The issue isn't that gamers gather, have fun and game.

    The issue is that designers are put on pedestals.
  • I prefer to just put you on your knees rather than having to climb all the way up on that pedestal.
  • Posted By: nemomemeWhat kinds of activities/behaviors would you like to see more/less of that would mitigate some of these uncomfortable feelings?
    Let me think on that. Good question.
  • I only worry that it's a dangerous way to judge design, so prior to publication I would be worried that I'm getting weak playtest information if I'm getting it from play with other designers. With my own table we already have an extremely good (I think) critical culture but I haven't built that with anyone else and if it doesn't exist, then I smell all kinds of landmines in it. I worry about great sessions, for example, being read as great system.

    As far as playing with other designers 'cause it's fun, well, hell nothing could go wrong with that. Party on.

    Now if you're talking about taking pride in publicly listing all of the designers I've slept with, well, that's somewhere between jubilent out-shouting and name-dropping, and none of that seems to be about games, per se, but rather human interaction and social structures and stuff. Is it a problem? If it is, it's not one it's feasible to address or even analyze very well (you're ultimately going to wind up wondering why someone does something and you don't get to ever know that). So it just is.
  • Posted By: HalfjackNow if you're talking about taking pride in publicly listing all of the designers I've slept with, well, that's somewhere between jubilent out-shouting and name-dropping, and none of that seems to be about games, per se, but rather human interaction and social structures and stuff. Is it a problem? If it is, it's not one it's feasible to address or even analyze very well (you're ultimately going to wind up wondering why someone does something and you don't get to ever know that). So it just is.
    If the conclusion of this thread is:

    Judd, when podcasters act starstruck when they meet Game Designer X and people start threads that seem to put play with designers over other play, you are reading too much into it and you need to relax.

    That'd be fine.
  • I felt weird posting in that thread because it felt like "look, I'm listing friends" (not so much, "designers are special") and listing friends is weird. Unless you're playing FreeMarket.

    That said, designers are special... at designing. I think it would be weird if people were all like, Jared is so good at design, I bet he would be good in bed. Now that's weird!

    I agree that great players are easily overlooked for what makes them special. It's harder to point to and share what makes them special unless you play with them. So they get less attention.

    That said (and some game designers may want to slap me for saying this) I think many hardcore RPG gamers are beginning game designers in the making or hope to be, so active designers get special attention from them.
  • @Judd—To be honest, I felt kind of uncomfortable starting that thread, but felt compelled to, as kind of a check-in. Also, admittedly, as a reaction against all the designer-bashing from JD and others.

    @Jenskot—And yeah, all those designers are friends or at least acquaintances—in fact, that's kind of the point. They're not better than me even if I admire the designs they've done and what they've contributed to gaming through their work. I feel pretty confident that I'm doing my part too: by GMing and facilitating a lot of games, introducing both new gamers and veterans to new ways of thinking. But while I don't deify designers, I do respect what they do and think it has importance and what they intend shouldn't casually be tossed aside as it often is.

    I dunno. Lately I've just been frustrated by a lot of misinterpretations of games—here, and in real life. Knowing the game's designer or having played the game with them doesn't necessarily prevent all such erroneous implementations, of course, but it can really help to internalize a game's design or to clear up questions about how the rules are intended (there's that word, sorry, but it is actually relevant) to work. Like, wow, it really is that simple, or even, wow that one thing really is kind of counterintuitive but works well when you do it that way.

    Knowing or playing with a lot of designers isn't all that unusual in this community and shouldn't necessarily be a means of gaining status. But I do think it confers a measure of credibility when discussing games and their designs. I think I'm saying something like, "I'm part of this community, and I get what these games are about and how they work."

    Matt
  • Matt,

    I wasn't at all trying to criticize you for starting the thread, more about what it became and it piled on other behaviors I have observed over yonder years.

    I don't want to make it all about your thread anymore than I want to make it about bending the knee to the Burning Lord, Luke Crane, long may he reign from BWHQ.
  • Oh, "Burning Lord," I like that sound of that. Froz, give this man a raise. Who is he again?
  • I just think there should be bigger cults with more money and concubines for us designers. Really.

    No, really. You think I'm kidding.
  • To paraphrase a bit: Nobody counts as a game designer unless they have hundreds and hundreds of game concubines.
  • I tried to pitch the "cult as model of game distribution" thing to folks a few years back. Nobody bit, but it's never too late to revisit a good idea. I mean, Sagefight already has a website. Now they just need to sell t-shirts and the Handbook of Master Solis and create a pyramid scheme for early adopters to cash in/out.
  • I saw it as a thread where a question got asked and people gave answers. I don't know, it seemed pretty straightforward to me. If that's not what it was, though, I don't get what's wrong with getting excited about knowing or playing games with people who make things we like. Like, George R. R. Martin wrote some books that I loved and if I got to meet him and talk to him about those books that would be really cool. When I first got into indie gaming and found games that let me play the types of games I've always wanted to play, it made me really enthusiastic about meeting the people who made them (I will not name them lest it put them on a pedestal).

    This seems like stomping on people's enthusiasm just in case the dread STATUS GAMES start rearing up their head. It's cool to play games with the designers. It's cool to play with other people too. The difference is we can have a conversation about gaming with those designers because their heads poke up out of the crowd. I can't talk to you about gaming with my friend Shael because you don't know who he is (well, you do, but most people don't).
  • edited August 2010
    I think it's great people get excited about stuff. Even irrationally so. Of course we could descend into some spiralling debate about the enlightement and the evil of cults of personality and totalitarisms but I think that's really stretching it.

    I was never a real fanboy of anything. I don't want to be, I don't feel the need. Fanboys ruin everything. But I have often felt a great respect or perhaps some deep mutual understanding for people who created things that resonated with me. Burroughs and Ulver being two. It's not a rational thing. Art is about barring emotions and ideas and sometimes those hit all the right chords with another person, and that's great.

    Games aren't art, I don't think so, but we share a lot with writers or moviemakers. Or even musicians. And just like when you watch a brilliant movie that resonates with you, you want to go to the person who made it and say "Holy shit man, you've done a great thing."

    Maybe it challenges you, maybe it makes you think, maybe it makes you feel funny, maybe it's just beautiful, or fun or even meaningful or whatever. The bottom line is, it excites you. Excitement makes you get up, do things, talk to people, make stuff. And sometimes it makes you act stupid.

    Still, thank you, Wo/Man Who Made Something Exciting. Thank you for making that thing. My life is richer because of it.
  • Most of the games I've played with the designers are far more "mainstream" than "indie". Does that make that community incestuous and evil too?

    This thread is weird. I really don't think its a big deal, and I think its super fun when you can play a game with a designer. Cause its this thing they made that they're sharing with you, and that's awesome.

    Teatine, you're soooooo wrong. Games are totally art. Sha-zam!
  • If you can have one of two badges, "I've touched Jared Sorensen" or "Jared Sorensen has touched me", which would you choose?
  • I hear you Judd.

    I am a little tired when people do the awestruck thing when talking about designers. And how the same like four people end up on the same like four podcasts over and over again.

    Not that I have anything against design, writing, etc. Hell, am I not now planning on the next game sessions of the shit that just game out last month at Gencon? :-) But yeah, I guess the old ties to the design community are still strong, so there's still a lot of folks that are constantly "working on my screenplay game", so thoughts on design and craft are on our minds a lot, I guess.

    I love celebrating the common player and the effort it takes to set up and run a good game. Actually this site is my temple to that belief, I guess.

    In the past, I've set up events and contests like the "Design a Relationship Map" thing. And I love hearing about JD's GameMaster conferences, or seeing when people post about their campaigns or game hacks.

    I'm thinking that this site is overdo for another play/gaming-focused "contest" (read "event") or sorts, ala the R-Map thing, or the "Play This with That", or something else non-design-focused. Haven't had a solid idea for one of these things for a bit.

    One thread that I've been kinda sitting on for a while, but thinking about, is more of a focus on people who play games but "hack the setting", like I did with L5R, Judd did with Forgotten Realms, and others do from time to time (Setting X where Critical Thing Y doesn't happen/didn't exist/etc).

    I'll try to put more of that stuff into motion.

    And my Suggestion Box is always open.

    -Andy
  • Posted By: MatthijsI just think there should be bigger cults with more money and concubines for us designers. Really.
    Wrong line of job for you, my friend. You should try space tyrant instead.
  • edited August 2010
    Posted By: nemomeme
    One of many really neat things about this community is that we have the opportunity to sit down and play games with the people that made them. Or talk with them on forums.
    Definitely this!

    I think it's cool to be able to meet the people who created things that you like, and tell them so. It's one of the nice things about being involved in any "indie" version of something (music, games, comics, etc) - the fact that there's no real "fan" and "artist" bullshit hierarchy.

    When I go see Wilco (for example) , I'm just a fan and consumer, one of thousands. But I see Crooked Fingers (also for example), I usually say hi to Eric Bachmann after the show, and tell him how much I like his new joint (b/c I always like that dude's new joint), and maybe hear something interesting about the record that makes me appreciate it more.

    That kind of personal connection is good.
  • Posted By: Brian MinterI think it's cool to be able to meet the people who created things that you like, and tell them so. It's one of the nice things about being involved in any "indie" version of something (music, games, comics, etc) - the fact that there's no real "fan" and "artist" bullshit hierarchy.

    When I go see Wilco (for example) , I'm just a fan and consumer, one of thousands. But I see Crooked Fingers (also for example), I usually say hi to Eric Bachmann after the show, and tell him how much I like his new joint (b/c I always like that dude's new joint), and maybe hear something interesting about the record that makes me appreciate it more.

    That kind of personal connection is good.
    Definitely. This is one of the reasons I love our rpg scene. It'd feel sort of weird to ask Vincent Baker or Ben Lehman for an autograph. I mean, if you see them, you can just talk to them about games, or even play games with them, which is much better than some ink on a page.
  • Posted By: hans chung-otterson
    Definitely. This is one of the reasons I love our rpg scene. It'd feel sort of weird to ask Vincent Baker or Ben Lehman for an autograph. I mean, if you see them, you can justtalk to themabout games, or even play games with them, which is much better than some ink on a page.
    I live down the street from Vincent and still get him to sign my games. Partially because it's funny to see his face when I ask, partially because it turns the game into not just a game, but a fond reminder. I have a signed copy of Mist-Robed Gate, and I'm married to the author. It's one of my most treasured books.

    That said, I get where you're coming from, because signing books always feels a little surreal. I always do it when asked, but I never offer, because it's important to me to interact with people who are interested in my games as enthusiastic peers, and not as fans. That's why my email address is in every book, and why I'm playing Blowback on Skype with whoever asks. I want to talk about stuff and have fun with people who share my interests.

    Back to the OP: with most of my friends who designed games, I was friends with them before I ever really interacted with them in design terms or played their games. I don't think of them as game designers except when I'm engaging in their games or talking design with them. But I don't think there's any problem with me being excited that I get to play games I love with the people I admire who made them, any more than there's a problem with me going WOOOOOOO while applauding after my brother does a set with his band.

    Frankly, I think there's a problem when it's WEIRD to be excited to enjoy something a friend made with them. It's like if I go over to Joshua's house and he made carbonara, and I'm like FUCK YES CARBONARA and then I'm like "Wait, let me go eat this on the porch so it doesn't look like I'm idolizing you for being a badass chef."
  • Folks,

    I don't think its weird to like to meet people who create cool shit.

    I don't think its weird to enjoy playing a game with someone who made the game.

    There is something deeper at work, here and that thread just kind of reminded me of it.

    I see it more in podcasts, when podcasters treat designers with kid-gloves and are too in awe to properly question them or challenge their ideas or disagree at all.

    I am having trouble putting words to it but I know that plenty of people are whispering to me and saying that they are seeing it around too.

    So, I ask that you please read charitably, don't assume I think that its lame and/or strange if you like X or Y designer's work, or e-mail them and tell them that their game rocks or get a book signed. That is not what I am saying.

    I will work on what I am saying but please, don't simplify it and joke it away to nothing (unless you think its nothing and want to joke about it and simplify it).

    Judd
  • Posted By: Elizabeth"Wait, let me go eat this on the porch so it doesn't look like I'm idolizing you for being a badass chef."
    To be fair, Joshua is a terrible ass-chef.
  • I fear that I have perhaps missed out on a critical aspect of being a designer that I was entitled to. Not wanting this phenomenon of putting designers on pedestools to be repressed before I have had full enjoyment of participating in it, I hereby demand that the window of opportunity remain open until I have accumulated my due share of ego stroking.

    To make up for lost time, from now on I shall require not just being put on a pedestool but I shall also be expecting the fawning attention and outright worship I deserve but apparently have been too far humble to request. But sincere and well deserved flattery is, by itself, inadequate. Groupies should also be prepared to provide free alcohol and sexual favors on demand, and absorb all necessary travel expenses.

    I'll let you know when I've had enough and we can return to promoting an end to this policy.
  • Alright, let me try to write this out. Allow me to think it through and say really basic stuff.

    Matt's thread is not the problem. Matt's thread is just something that got me itching and thinking about a problem. Something about it bugged me but my criticism is not leveled at anyone who posted in that thread, nor with the awesome guy who started it.

    So, our hobby is absolutely about people connecting. It is about that when we sit to game, it is about that when we sit down to type about gaming and send it out onto the internets. I get that. I have seen and experienced and am in love with that journey where I connect with someone on a forum, IM with 'em, talk to them, meet them at a con, share meals with them and game with them and become friends with them. That is a nice thing, in all of its forms with all manner of gamers.

    I am not someone saying that there is "something wrong with the community" and crossing my arms and making dire pronouncements with monkey poo flinging. I am not someone who comes to Story Games once a year to tell everyone here how wrong they are.

    What I was talking about, with the pedestals and the bending of the knee to the Burning Lord is a feeling I get. It is something I don't want to be solved or killed or stopped. I don't want any one person to stop any one thing. Elizabeth's dinners at Joshua's house are safe. Everyone's signed copies of games can be spared the Bradburian fireman (especially the books signed by game designers that I have on my shelf).

    I just want the idea that hierarchy putting designers over gamers is bullshit and stupid. I want to just look over at that hierarchy and let it know that we are watching it. On a personal level, I want to find more time to celebrate play and find new ways to do so.
  • "working on my screenplay game"

    This so needs to be a shirt.


    James
  • Judd can you point to something specific that typifies what you're getting at? You've disclaimed everything I thought it might be, so I'm keen to know where all this "putting designers over gamers" is taking place. Eager to help, if I can, but I need to be pointed in a direction.
  • Posted By: JuddI see it more in podcasts, when podcasters treat designers with kid-gloves and are too in awe to properly question them or challenge their ideas or disagree at all.
    I stopped reading at this point to offer this particularly relevant Penny Arcade comic: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/1/20/

    Now I will go back to that point and continue reading.
  • edited August 2010
    Posted By: ElizabethPosted By: hans chung-otterson
    Definitely. This is one of the reasons I love our rpg scene. It'd feel sort of weird to ask Vincent Baker or Ben Lehman for an autograph. I mean, if you see them, you can justtalk to themabout games, or even play games with them, which is much better than some ink on a page.
    I live down the street from Vincent and still get him to sign my games. Partially because it's funny to see his face when I ask, partially because it turns the game into not just a game, but a fond reminder. I have a signed copy of Mist-Robed Gate, and I'mmarriedto the author. It's one of my most treasured books.

    That said, I get where you're coming from, because signing books always feels a little surreal. I always do it when asked, but I never offer, because it's important to me to interact with people who are interested in my games as enthusiastic peers, and not as fans. That's why my email address is in every book, and why I'm playing Blowback on Skype with whoever asks. I want to talk about stuff and have fun with people who share my interests.

    Good stuff, Elizabeth. I certainly don't look down on people who get people to sign their games. Before Gamestorm, when I knew Vincent was coming, internally I was like, "Should I bring Dogs and IAWA and KPFS and get him to sign them? That would be awesome!" Then I decided against it, mostly for ego reasons, because I wanted to seem cool and normal and just treat him like a dude. I don't regret that decision, and I think I'll forego getting designers to sign my games in the future*, but I also realize that a large part of my decision was just ego, like, "I want to look cool to Vincent." Which is probably worse than just asking him to sign my game.

    And Judd: Woo! Great stuff, man. Love it.

    *I think I'd treasure much more getting a picture with them. More of a memento of "I like this person's games! We were here together! We talked! Awesome!". Shoulda done that at GS.
  • Judd, you keep mentioning podcasts and I feel you, man. What's funny, is if you go back to the first year of Canon Puncture, you'll hear me doing exactly that. I made up a dream list of designers I wanted to talk to, then I begged them onto the show and fawned over them.

    I got over myself eventually. I've had tons more fun doing Game Advocates episodes than I did interviews with game designers back then. Not the interviewees' deal, it was mine. My head was all full of fanboy thoughts.
  • edited August 2010
    It's a scene thing, Judd. I don't do it in gaming but I used to do it in local music and in the science fiction writing world. I think the scene serves some really important functions in keeping people on their toes and motivated and sharing information and such, and there's no avoiding it anyway because we monkeys are funny like that.

    But that hierarchy thing you mentioned? Yeah, that gripes me.
  • I guess i have just not been exposed to this hierarchy stuff? maybe i will be if i go to some of the bigger shows? but if it's there i hope i'm not mindlessly contributing to it (i'm probably mindlessly contributing).
  • edited August 2010
    I had a long rant which the internet ate. Here's are the bullet points:

    * I get the impression that somehow folks have gone from "System Matters" to "Design Matters" to "Designer Matters".

    * In the functional sense of "thinking about and doing game design, like tweaking or creating rules or settings" most people here do game design.

    * Yet the label is applied only to people who want to write up their designs for other people to use. (Which is cool, I like it when people do that.)

    Finally:

    The AW Tone thread is an excellent example of the authority of "game designer" in action:

    In http://story-games.com/forums/?CommentID=288861
    Will HindmarchI'll bet the game is sturdier than it purports to be. I'll bet I can rename all the stats and classes and moves, change the tone a bit, and the thing will still run. Otherwise I'd run the thing ASAP to test it out, but that I'm not that interested in another dusty-wasteland vision of the apocalypse right now. I'm much more interested in this thing's thrumming engine than I am in its attitude.
    Sometime later, in http://story-games.com/forums/?CommentID=289034
    SageIf these rules seem to constraining, maybe it's a way of figuring out it's not the game for you. Will, do you think it would be possible for another game with similarly specific GM moves to work for you?"
    (Not to pick on Sage in particular, this was just such a great example.)

    Seems like a total disconnect to me.

    People know not to say BadWrongFun, but at the same time they are inclined to offer another game instead of talking about deconstructing or tweaking the setting or the rules. The only exceptions to this seem to be threads with "Let's hack X" or "My Game, Please Comment" in the title.

    Maybe I'm misreading this, but every time I see this happening it, I see the cult of the designer in action. The idea that you need someone else to design the game in order for you to play it. The desire to customize is seen as an illness instead of a virtue.

    Not everyone does it, and probably most people who do it don't mean anything by it. It's still tremendously irritating to read.
  • I agree with Judd. Personally, I think the solution to designer fetishization is emphasising that anyone can design and publish games. I thought that was sort of the point.

    Still, celebrating players is cool, too.
  • edited August 2010
    @ nikodemus

    I think the end of your post is a bit off topic. I don't see how it's creature worship to suggest that playing a different game may be a solution if the game your thinking of does not offer what you want.

    Also game design is an illness. :p

    I think it's fantastic that people design games and share them, if everyone understood game design better we would actually all understand how to make the world a better place.

    BUT

    Game design is a hard and time consuming task. people buy games for a reason, because they offer a savings of time and tears that come along with making a game work. i dont understand how that is offensive. Free time is more precious then ever, who wants to spend it balancing a game.

    on topic

    This has been my experience in the hobby and mass market games community.

    The more important someone is, the less likely they are an ass.

    Rarely if ever has anyone successful or noteworthy been an ass to me personally.

    I don't know if this is a rare experience or what but the problem is likely not with the known people. Also if a podcaster or designer draws a crowd or gets named dropped by people or whatever is happening. It's just a side effect of anything becoming popular. These people put themselves out there and others find value in it so they naturally want to meet or share something with those people. It gets creepy weird in main stream media, but until someone takes a picture of Luke crane's balls while he is trying to get out of car i think were just fine.

    there is the other extreme
    elitism.jpg
    and frankly thats a game you can only play solo.

    i dont know even if there is some big growing problem, are we going to get pitch forks or something? or are we just going to create meaningless divisions and clicks over it?


    Hug party,
    -Tyler
  • There's an aspect I haven't seen addressed here, which is that playing a game with the original creator can provide insight into tone or oblique mechanics that might be hard to glean from rules alone. Of course, you can get this simply by playing with people outside of your regular groups--I played a game of 3:16 with Tony Dowler that transformed the way I saw that game significantly--but there's something special about sitting down with the original creator and gleaning some new insights. I think this is doubly true for new games, especially small-press, because the original creator is often has more experience with the game than anybody else on Earth.
  • edited August 2010
    I think Judd's warnings are on target. The storygames/indie scene in our hobby sometimes feels very much like high school to me, with a group of cool kids and then a lot of other kids trying to get into that group by doing and acting in ways they think the cool kids will like. It's not always like that and that doesn't negate the great amount of actual gaming and gaming ideas that also exist in the scene here. But it's there and I am far from alone in being aware of it and not liking it and it is not like that in the various other sectors of the hobby.

    edit: to put it even more broadly, social stuff seems more important than gaming stuff. I think that's the heart of the issue.
  • edited August 2010
    people buy games for a reason, because they offer a savings of time and tears that come along with making a game work. i dont understand how that is offensive.
    I don't think anyone said it is offensive. I certainly don't think so. How else could I read their stuff and think about it?

    I don't think fandom is offensive.
    Free time is more precious then ever, who wants to spend it balancing a game.
    Quite a few of people do. They consider it fun and rewarding, and their time is theirs to spend. Telling them not to tinker because they are not game designers writing games for other people to play is borderline offensive. It's like saying "You should not swim if you don't do scuba!"

    EDIT: cleaned up punchline. Every post needs one.
  • Posted By: Luke WheelOh, "Burning Lord," I like that sound of that. Froz, give this man a raise. Who is he again?
    I spent time with Luke and now it burns when I pee.
  • Hey Judd, sorry about my tone, I was being a total butt and didn't see what you were getting at. I get what you mean, and generally agree.
  • Posted By: ElizabethHey Judd, sorry about my tone, I was being a total butt and didn't see what you were getting at. I get what you mean, and generally agree.
    No, I'm being vague too.

    I hate it when someone starts a kerfluffle, doesn't name names or point to concrete examples and walks away angry. I'm not quite doing that but I am being vague as hell.
  • edited August 2010
    I really wish there was a way to celebrate great players or great GMs and whatnot more effectively. Based on the threads that have gone on in the past, I think this is something a lot more people are interested in but nobody knows how to really fix it. The different contests centered around play have been cool, but they get nowhere near the attention of a game design contest (unless a noteable game design or podcasting personality participates in them), and there was just a thread where people were saying they don't like reading AP.

    How do you celebrate play if it's something for you and your group and is understandably difficult to appreciate by people who were not participants? That's what I keep coming back to whenever I'm trying to 'be the change I want to see in the world' and post about play. Then I pop out an AP post and it sinks away with no responses.

    Edit: I think Game Advocates is the best thing going for this right now. I want to second what Andy said about the same four people getting interviewed over and over. I love hearing about games from the perspective of the passionate people playing them.
Sign In or Register to comment.