Comments

  • Yes, but the problem with sports commentary, and economics, is that they are forced to infer narrative FROM the numbers. Whereas we RPGers have the advantage of sometimes devising fictional content, plugging it into some numbers, and then inferring more fiction from it!

    What every Econ department really needs is a Clouds-and-Dice chart.
  • Posted By: John Powellimage
    xkcd could just have easily been summing up RPGs!
    That's exactly what it says in the Alt text.
  • edited May 2011
    Posted By: John Powellxkcd could just have easily been summing up RPGs!
    In fact, he was. Hover over the image and you'll see this: "Also, all financial analysis. And, more directly, D&D."

    Edit: Ninja'd!
  • Seriously, though, has anyone ever played a game where you roll dice at the very beginning of a play process, without any fictional input at all? It's gotta be like being a damn oracle or something.
  • Random character creation? FASERIP style? D&D style?
  • edited May 2011
    Posted By: Zac in VirginiaSeriously, though, has anyone ever played a game where you roll dice at the very beginning of a play process, without any fictional input at all? It's gotta be like being a damn oracle or something.
    Working on one, also if i remember correctly picking conflict actions in mouse guard is kind of similar.

    I actually like it way more then the usual process. It can be used to pre-load a few ideas before you even start to worry about narrating something. with the rules & rolling out of the way your free to narrate whatever fits the scenario.
  • @Zak: that's Fiasco you're describing.
  • I was so excited when I saw the comic this morning, I completely forgot to look at the alt text...
  • JD: Allow me to clarify - - "play process" meaning the start of a mechanical process in the middle of a play session.
    And I'd say the difference is that D&D gives you some "outcomes" to choose from after you roll stats.

    @Renato: Fair point. I do find this kind of thing very unsatisfying - there's so much pressure to come up with some amazing idea based on the result! :(
  • Posted By: Zac in VirginiaYes, but the problem with sports commentary, and economics, is that they are forced to infer narrative FROM the numbers. Whereas we RPGers have the advantage of sometimes devising fictional content, plugging it into some numbers, and then inferring more fiction from it!
    I think you overestimate economics and sports commentary. Much of both consist of "create a narrative, fit the numbers into it, then create a new narrative from there." There's plenty of devising fictional content before the metaphorical dice are rolled.
  • Nick,
    First, let me say: lololololol
    You, sir, are 100% absolutely right. Where's my head at, today? ^___^
    Posted By: Mr. TeapotMuch of both consist of "create a narrative, fit the numbers into it, then create a new narrative from there."
    So perfectly stated. Well done.
  • As far as i Remember, i *did* play a game in which i rolled dice beore ANYTHING:

    the old d100 Call of Cthulhu had so many separated rolls for character creation, mainly with the "Lore" stat being rolled apart from the others (at least with my DM, i dunno if it was a house rule or an official one), and i knew so little of the system, that i rolled everything and just thought of a character after i saw the numbers. Turned out to be exactly the character i wanted.
  • Posted By: Zac in Virginiayou roll dice at the very beginning of a play process, without any fictional input at all?
    That's pretty much how Happy Birthday, Robot! was designed.
  • @Daniel: yep! There's definitely no "fiction" going on in Happy Birthday, Robot! the way there is in, say, Vampire. Kind of ironic, really, since HBR! is very literally a story-making game.
  • But that would only work once, right? After the first time you throw dice (or draw cards, or whatever) and determine fiction from that then there is fiction now in play that changes what fiction can come out of further throws of the dice. Hence things progress.
  • Yeah, that's very true. You could even say that the first turn has the words "Happy Birthday, Robot!" to work with as a seed of the fiction to come.
  • Posted By: Zac in Virginia"play process" meaning the start of a mechanical process in the middle of a play session.
    And I'd say the difference is that D&D gives you some "outcomes" to choose from after you roll stats.
    So....wait, the question is "name a game where you do something random that doesn't produce an outcome or impact on the game?"

    Even Duck Duck Goose fails that one!
  • @Jason: No, I was referring to games like Happy Birthday, Robot - you roll a die when you're told to (in this case, on your turn), and then make hay from the results as best you can. It can be called "fortune at the beginning".
    Most other games out there have you position yourself in the fiction, then you roll, then you determine the outcome based on both the previous positioning and the roll itself. "Fortune in the middle".

    Some games can have "fortune at the end" if the only effect of the roll is mechanical, not fictional. If ALL that happens is I lose a few hit points, but nothing in the "plot" changes (terrain, your equipment, etc.), then that's putting the randomizer at the "end" of the process of interacting with the fiction.
  • Right, like D&D character creation. You roll some dice, assign them to ability scores?
  • That is certainly true for early D&D but most character creation forces you to make choices from the start. More like Traveler CC where there are no choices until there is a die roll.
  • Posted By: JDCorleyRight, like D&D character creation. You roll some dice, assign them to ability scores?
    To that, I say:
    Posted By: Zac in VirginiaD&D gives you some "outcomes" to choose from after you roll stats.
    So yes, I mentioned it, but no, it's not really what I'm talking about.

    Character creation can have some fiction or implied fiction going on, yeah, but you're not necessarily "playing" when designing your character. If you disagree with this sentiment, that is fine. That's not the point.
    What I was primarily referring to was task/conflict resolution rolls, and where they fit in the process of determining what's going on in the fiction.
  • I'm haveing a hard time thinking of anything that is fortune at the start. I can really only see that working for the first random element. Once fiction has been established around that element all other elements will have their fiction bent in that direction. Unless you do the fictional elements blind (or quasi-blind). Ok so I'm stretching here, as a group you all roll dice, and then you pick a 'play set' to guide the fiction. The players seporate and one of them goes first, useing some of the dice and the playset to create a bit of the fiction. That player then passes on just the remaining dice and the play set, not the fiction they had created, keep doing this until there are no players and no dice left. Then bring the bits of fiction together and see how they fit mad libs style. Yeah it sucks and the fortune before gets ruined by the shared play set but it's the best I got.
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