rpg.net vs story games (experiment)

edited May 2011 in Story Games
I have a poll running on rpg.net that has attracted 130 responses so far. The results are not what I expected. I would be interested to see how the results here vary from the ones I collected there.
Don't go and look at that poll first, and particularity don't vote on it, which may skew the results. After a while, Ill post the rpg.net results here to see if they are any different.

I cant see a poll option here, so do the following method. quote the previous tally post, and edit it to increment your vote by 1. poll post to follow:
«1

Comments

  • edited May 2011
    "Which is these claims is most interesting to you?' you cant say multiple, you must prioritize one


    This game contains novel mechanics
    [0]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [0]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [0]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [0]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [0]
  • Err, what's the question?
  • Yeah, which game are we talking about? :)
  • edited May 2011
    7! 9! 3! 12!

    SOCIAL SCIENCE GO!
  • OVER 9000
  • the question is "Which of these claims is the most likely to attract your attention to a new game, and why"

    my answer: im having difficulty thinking of a well-designed game that doesn't do all of those things. i'm attracted by color, mood, art and buzz generally. i want to know what the fictional content of the game is supposed to look like.

    (i cheated)
  • Posted By: migoErr, what's the question?
    What, your mind control powers failed you? Sigh. OK, Ill let you know the old fashioned way.

    "Which is these claims is most interesting to you?'
  • edited May 2011
    Posted By: ndpthe question is "Which of these claims is the most likely to attract your attention to a new game, and why"

    my answer: im having difficulty thinking of a well-designed game that doesn't do all of those things. i'm attracted by color, mood, art and buzz generally. i want to know what the fictional content of the game is supposed to look like.
    OK, but that isnt really relevant to the original poll and totally not relevant for the purpose of this poll. This poll is purely out of interest to see the difference between the story gamer audience and the rpg.net audience in terms of what attracts them to a game.

    The rpg.net poll had one clear winner, and it wasn't he one I expected...
  • Posted By: stefoidThis game will teach you how to GM or play better [1]
    I play with smart people who can do collaborative story-telling, but we're always looking for better approaches to avoid disfluency and promote flow. We'll probably play a game that promises to improve our play over any other kind.
  • edited May 2011
    I'm like Nathan. My answer is "all of the above," because any one by itself seems kinda silly.

    If I had to choose, I'd go with "This game will teach you how to GM or play better." [2]

    EDIT: Colin scooped me!
  • Posted By: stefoid"Which is these claims is most interesting to you?'


    This game contains novel mechanics
    [0]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [2]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [0]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [0]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [0]
  • edited May 2011
    This game contains novel mechanics
    [0]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [2]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [0]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [0]
  • edited May 2011
    edited away
  • Posted By: zircherThis game contains novel mechanics
    [0]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [2]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [0]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [1]
  • edited May 2011
    Posted By: zircherThis game contains novel mechanics
    [0]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [3]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [0]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [1]
    I chose "This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style" because it sounds the best (which doesn't mean it is the best). "Ease" and "style" are attractive words that actually tell me something. I found the other options unclear. I may be interested in them but there isn't enough detail to get me excited. EDIT: vote changed to "This game will teach you how to GM or play better".

    I've run similar polls and I've found 2 things (actually dozens of things but 2 seem immediately applicable here): 1. how you say something is more important that what it is and 2. why someone chose something is more important than what they chose.

    That said, here is why I didn't choose the other options...

    This game contains novel mechanics
    First thought was... "cool", followed by, "I don't like novel for novel's sake", finished with, "this seems like a huge promise with a high chance of disappointment."

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    Better how? Throwing "GM" or "Player" made this seem less focused. Also, if someone is going to teach me, I need to know more about the teacher and their qualifications.

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    I almost chose this. I've just seen too many games promise this and not deliver. The how is everything here. Also, I'm not sure what "focus" means. Do players have narrative control? Do the players have a way of communicating to the GM what they want the game to be about in real time to make game prep easier? I'm not sure.

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    I feel like most games promise this implicitly or explicitly. Does this mean that the mechanics push the players forward somehow? What do we mean by dramatic action? Do players make decisions that are not based on tactics but purely on drama? I've seen games promise this and in reality all they mean is, "we have a combat system that lets you slow down the action and zoom into the dramatic blow by blow action"... like most traditional games.
  • edited May 2011
    You shouldn't let whether or not you think the claims can be backed up or not influence what is most interesting to you. Unless of course, you are so skeptical of such a claim being backed up that the claim becomes uninteresting because you think it couldn't possibly be anything other than BS. If the claim gets you to investigate further, even if it is just so you can confirm to yourself that the person making the claim must be talking BS, then its done its job...

    the 'teaches you to be a better gm or player' is purposely provocative. If you think "oh yeah, we'll see about that you arrogant dick! and furiously look for evidence that this game has nothing to teach the likes of you, then great!
  • If it's purely, "which will get you interested... even if the interest is due to cautious suspicion" then I would need to change my vote to "This game will teach you how to GM or play better". I will update my vote above.
  • Posted By: TylerTPosted By: zircherThis game contains novel mechanics
    [0]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [4]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [0]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [1]
  • edited May 2011
    Posted By: TylerTPosted By: zircherThis game contains novel mechanics
    [0]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [5]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [0]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [1]
    Hands down! Sounds interesting and valuable.
  • edited May 2011
    This game contains novel mechanics
    [0]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [5]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [0]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [0]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [1]
  • Oops! We're cross-posting. Anyway, the numbers are right!
  • Posted By: stefoidThis game contains novel mechanics
    [0]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [5]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [0]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [0]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [2]
  • edited May 2011
    Posted By: stefoidThis game contains novel mechanics
    [0]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [6]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [0]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [0]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [2]
  • This game contains novel mechanics
    [0]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [6]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [0]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [2]


    I find the claim of novel mechanics dubious, at this point I've usually seen everything, and at most it's an interesting re-implementation of existing mechanics. I figure teaching how to GM or play better means imposing the designers ideas on me. The focus on resolving conflicts with ease and style to me reads as a fancy way of saying 'rules lite'. This game propels the players towards dramatic action sounds like a buzz phrase, I really wouldn't know what to expect.

    I chose This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players because it describes the game in a way which can be objectively verified. It's also something that can be done multiple ways, so I'd be curious how it's implemented.
  • This game contains novel mechanics
    [0]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [6]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [2]
  • This game contains novel mechanics
    [1]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [6]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [2]
  • I agree with migo, except dramatic action seems interesting to me because of my current interests.

    This game contains novel mechanics
    [1]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [6]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [3]
  • This game contains novel mechanics
    [1]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [6]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [4]
  • #2 really seems like a superset of all the other answers to me. How can a game do any of the other things (okay, maybe not 'contain novel mechanics') and not also teach you how to GM or play better? You'd have to be pretty oblivious to play a game that propels you towards dramatic action and not internalize any of the means by which it does that, or become any better at rising to said dramatic occasions.

    But sure, I vote #2.
    Posted By: vulpinoidThis game contains novel mechanics
    [1]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [7]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [4]
  • Posted By: Ice Cream Emperor#2 really seems like a superset of all the other answers to me. How can a game do any of the other things (okay, maybe not 'contain novel mechanics') and not also teach you how to GM or play better? You'd have to be pretty oblivious to play a game that propels you towards dramatic action and not internalize any of the means by which it does that, or become any better at rising to said dramatic occasions.

    But sure, I vote #2.


    Posted By: vulpinoidThis game contains novel mechanics
    [1]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [7]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [5]
  • Posted By: WilhelmPosted By: Ice Cream Emperor#2 really seems like a superset of all the other answers to me. How can a game do any of the other things (okay, maybe not 'contain novel mechanics') and not also teach you how to GM or play better? You'd have to be pretty oblivious to play a game that propels you towards dramatic action and not internalize any of the means by which it does that, or become any better at rising to said dramatic occasions.

    But sure, I vote #2.


    Posted By: vulpinoidThis game contains novel mechanics
    [1]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [7]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [6]
  • This game contains novel mechanics
    [1]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [7]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [7]
  • Am I the only one who likes novelty for novelty's sake? Must all games be playable??? MUST ALL GAMES BE FUN?!?
  • edited June 2011
    This game contains novel mechanics
    [1]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [8]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [7]

    I think this poll hints why everyone is crazy about AW.
  • edited June 2011
    This game contains novel mechanics
    [2]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [8]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [7]
  • This game contains novel mechanics
    [2]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [8]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [1]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [8]
  • This game contains novel mechanics
    [2]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [8]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [2]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [8]
  • Posted By: MatthijsAm I the only one who likes novelty for novelty's sake? Must all games be playable??? MUST ALL GAMES BE FUN?!?
    You're just the only one who likes it THE MOST. :D
  • This game contains novel mechanics
    [2]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [8]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [2]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [9]

    I don't want to be taught, I wan't drama, dammit.
  • Here is my vote

    Chris Engle

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
  • edited June 2011
    Posted By: JBMannonThis game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [2]
    Josh; you're my man! And we are not alone; dozens of rpg.net'ers are on our side! Now we need to get them over here, so this forum can start to play as you and me want it to. Forward with ease and style! Woh-ho-ho-haa!
  • On a handheld so I can't really copy or quote, but put me down for dramatic action too.
  • Posted By: WightbredOn a handheld so I can't really copy or quote, but put me down for dramatic action too.
    This game contains novel mechanics
    [2]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [8]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [2]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [10]
  • Posted By: stefoidOK, but that isnt really relevant to the original poll and totally not relevant for the purpose ofthispoll. This poll is purely out of interest to see the difference between the story gamer audience and the rpg.net audience in terms of what attracts them to a game.
    Well, sure. I guess my vote is "none of the above" then. No single one of those claims particularly interests me, sorry.

    What's the goal of these polls? (other than re-inforcing some kind of real or imagined forum-based schism)
  • Posted By: TomasHVMPosted By: JBMannonThis game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [2]
    Josh; you're my man! And we are not alone; dozens of rpg.net'ers are on our side! Now we need to get them over here, so this forum can start to play as you and me want it to. Forward with ease and style! Woh-ho-ho-haa!

    I feel like my want for ease and style differs highly from the general rpg.net want for ease and style. Though a greater cross cultural exchange might be 'interesting'.
  • This game contains novel mechanics
    [2]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [8]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [2]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [1]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [11]
  • This game contains novel mechanics
    [2]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [8]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [2]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [2]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [11]
  • This game contains novel mechanics
    [2]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [8]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [2]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [2]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [12]
  • For me, it's kind of a tie between Novel Mechanics, Teach how to GM/Play Better, or Propelling Towards Dramatic Action.

    However, in the end I figure that these days I actually truly aim towards Novel Mechanics. Theoretically, I like all those three equally, but given all three I'd aim for the one with Something New.

    Finally, a lot of the games that taught me how to GM/Play better did so without actually thinking they were doing so. The two biggest GMing lessons I learned that improved my gaming in the last five years were:
    * Let the players play all NPCs, including and especially MAJOR NPCs. Other games have suggested the former, but only With Great Power suggested the latter (first).
    * The Mountain Witch Trick ("fishing"), from Mountain Witch.

    Both of these games didn't aim to Teach people to be Better GMs, they simply had "a rule that helps you play THIS game better." But taken outside of the game, it became a valuable tool applied to other games, and taught me to be a better GM.

    So I think the current tally is:

    =====
    This game contains novel mechanics
    [3]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [8]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [2]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [2]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [12]

    =====

    -Andy
  • This game contains novel mechanics
    [3]

    This game will teach you how to GM or play better
    [8]

    This game focuses on resolving conflicts with ease and style
    [2]

    This game puts pacing and focus in the hands of the players
    [2]

    This game propels the players towards dramatic action
    [13]
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