[World of Dungeons] Do we need MC moves?

RyRy
edited September 2012 in Story Games
After playing last night Mike is pretty sure that we need a sheet of MC moves for our World of Dungeons game. He also said you should break up with your girlfriend. Also he said you thought you were a victim since you don't pay taxes, because you're Swedish.

Anyway, I'm running it, Mike's in charge of the rules, but we stipulated no prep required. I ran the game with a copy of Dungeon Magazine #144 in front of me, but no actual prep or reading occurred.

Mike pointed out that if I just ran by instinct I'm not weaving the old content back in, I'm just creating new stuff, and it's constantly dangerous.

Do we need MC moves for World of Dungeons?

Comments

  • For my Lovecraftian hack, Dark Worlds, I just used two moves: turn their move back on them and show the horror.

    Perhaps you could do something similar for World of Dungeons. Two or three broad guidelines for hard moves.
  • I don't think we really need MC moves for WoD, but I think it does help for some people. I made up a list of moves for the hack I did of Streets of Marienburg, just to give them the right Warhammer-ish flavor, and I'm working on another for a more cartoony WoD hack, that will be appropriate for more light-hearted, cartoony adventures (and partially inspired by one of Daniel Solis' recent blog posts).

    Maybe just have a very generic list of things of how the MC can respond? Cues to inspire the sometimes-in-need-of-inspiration-MC?
  • Clinton's running WoD for us right now, and he's referencing the GM stuff from Dungeon World, as well as an old TSR module, a One Page Dungeon contest finalist, and various charts and tables from OSR products I cannot even name.
  • edited September 2012
    I'm working a more hard-lined, robust D&D-styled game generally inspired by WoD. I'm using two broad phrases to represent "setup moves" and "hard moves". They are "Plot Against Them" and "Show Your Wrath". The options for each are squarely based on Michael's (gremlin's) list from Streets of Marienburg. They are not required, but incredibly useful.

    Looking back, I'm not sure I like the name "Show Your Wrath" as it puts an antagonistic vibe on the DM, which I don't want.

    I also really like "turn their move back on them" and "show the horror" as simple fall-backs.
  • MC moves are a formalization of something DMs/GMs/MCs/people have been doing in games. You do not necessarily need them for WoD, because you already have them. (I am trying to blow your mind.)

    With that said, yes, they are super helpful. I have a sheet I made with all the MC moves from Dungeon World, plus specific MC moves for the Caves of Chaos. The "page 4" tables for WoD are also crazy helpful and made our game last night way better.
  • Just out of dumb curiosity, if you're going to add GM moves and stuff to WoD, why not just play Dungeon World? Seems like the advantage and uniqueness of WoD lies in it's simplicity.
  • edited September 2012
    Seems like they're not necessary but probably help you GM more smoothly because any time it's not absolutely obvious to you what the fiction demands you have a crib sheet that you can look to for inspiration.
  • Just out of dumb curiosity, if you're going to add GM moves and stuff to WoD, why not just play Dungeon World? Seems like the advantage and uniqueness of WoD lies in it's simplicity.
    The proverbial onion skins at work here. Not that I would ever shy away from playing Dungeon World, but there's no reason to make the full jump to DW on account of GM moves. It doesn't radically change WoD by adding a loose reference sheet.
  • MC moves are a formalization of something DMs/GMs/MCs/people have been doing in games. You do not necessarily need them for WoD, because you already have them. (I am trying to blow your mind.)
    Mind sufficiently blown.

    To me, GM moves are really just reminders of cool stuff you can do. So if it's time for you to do something and you have no idea what - BAM - look down and pick one. Some people could totally GM WoD without such a list; for others it might be helpful, or even necessary. Like Clinton said, they're things GMs do anyway, just formalized. I don't think it actually changes the game itself at all.

  • edited September 2012
    The proverbial onion skins at work here. Not that I would ever shy away from playing Dungeon World, but there's no reason to make the full jump to DW on account of GM moves. It doesn't radically change WoD by adding a loose reference sheet.
    Fair enough! A million layers of the Apocalypse!

  • I've added a few MC moves to my supers hack: inflict collateral damage, trigger a character's weakness, mess with their secrets, threaten the innocent people around them.
    Maybe just have a very generic list of things of how the MC can respond? Cues to inspire the sometimes-in-need-of-inspiration-MC?
    This is exactly it. Concentrated GM in a can.
  • When I run WoD, I use a mixture of MC moves I've learned throughout my life, but also from AW, DW, and a few other specific games. Some of them are formally written down so I remember them. Other times I just play by instinct. I write them down when I'm trying to do something that my instincts don't naturally bring to the table. For example, I'm a wuss about really bringing the pain, so it's good to write something down about that. On the other hand, making complex cultures and interesting social situations comes pretty naturally, so I don't need any principles about that. Still, I'm making an effort to try to write down those moves, because I eventually want to be able to teach them to other MCs who have a different set of talents.
  • P.S. It's worth remembering the intro to AW. Roleplaying is a conversation and the rules are there to moderate the conversation in interesting ways. Formally written MC moves, in my opinion, are there to get you to do things you might not otherwise do, to complicate things, to insert things you might not expect, etc.
  • Having run a bunch of WoD for kids and adults, I like the idea of at least trinity of principles as helpful nudges. In my games, I'd probably use:

    - Plot against them.
    - Bring the wrath!
    - Evoke the ancient magic.

    That said, a cheat sheet of complications and moves would be great for getting past any hiccups. Could be system agnostic or tailored to individual settings. Hmm, maybe I oughta crib something together for my Other Worlds game.
  • edited September 2012
    I feel like I'm being somewhat misrepresented. :P

    @Clinton and @J_Walton have the right of it, I'd say. The GM moves from Dungeon world aren't anything particularly new, they're just codified and presented in such a way that they can be inspirational. By having a list in front of you, instead of getting stuck on making the same one or two moves all the time (especially simply dealing damage), a GM can more easily come up with interesting options.
  • You gonna make me a page?
  • Dude, sounds like we're all saying: make your own page, based on the kind of game you want to play/run. Not all games will use the same moves. If I'm playing Ravenloft-y WoD it'll be a different list than if I'm playing Eero-style "no names until 3rd level" hardcore OSR-y WoD.
  • Oh, I know. But I'd rather have a list that highlights specifically the stuff that Mike wanted to see. I figure he can make me the move sheet and I can run it.
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