The danger of too much narration and not enough dice rolling...

edited June 2008 in Story Games
...or EXACTLY how Wushu works:

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Questionable Content #1172

Comments

  • edited June 2008
    Posted By: John Powell...or EXACTLY how Wushu works:
    Questionable Content #1172
    Are you sure?

    image

    Huh. Well. Guess so.

    Hell, now I need to drag this over to RPGnet.
  • This is fantastic.
  • Posted By: Levi KornelsenHell, now I need to drag this over to RPGnet.
    And email that to the comic author. Good show.

    Also, I know understand how Wushu works (despite having scanned the rules twice).
  • This also illustrates perfectly why I don't like Wushu.... but I'm a curmudgeon that way.

    Jesse
  • Heh, it's true, in a way, but also not how I play Wushu. The example is very much in the "I do X" mode and because it's basically a duel, it sounds kinda dysfunctional in places.

    IMO, Wushu work much better when one takes a step away from "I do" and more into "What happens and how it does". Describing Scenery, the mood and so on makes the Scene more interesting, the players less likely to burn out and the whole thing sound much less like, well, the example given. ^_^
  • Posted By: Lord MinxHeh, it's true, in a way, but also not how I play Wushu. The example is very much in the "I do X" mode and because it's basically a duel, it sounds kinda dysfunctional in places.
    Creative one-upmanship is dysfunctional?

    Away with you!
  • Posted By: Levi KornelsenCreative one-upmanship is dysfunctional?

    Away with you!
    Yeah, how else can we enjoy our narrativist violence emo-porn?
  • less QQ, more pew pew
  • That's Wushu? Call me kooky but that looks awesome!
  • Posted By: Adam Drayless QQ, more pew pew
    Whaaaa?
  • Thanks for the follow up editing Levi! I'll have to shuffle over to rpg.net now to see what chaos erupts over there...
  • edited June 2008
    Posted By: fnord3125Posted By: Adam Drayless QQ, more pew pew
    Whaaaa?

    Less crying (QQ) more action, or shooting (pew pew)...
  • ...kill him and have sex with those two at the same time...

    Oh, sorry, what were you guys talking about? Roleplay and stuff...ah!
  • Posted By: Lord MinxHeh, it's true, in a way, but also not how I play Wushu. The example is very much in the "I do X" mode and because it's basically a duel, it sounds kinda dysfunctional in places.

    IMO, Wushu work much better when one takes a step away from "I do" and more into "What happens and how it does". Describing Scenery, the mood and so on makes the Scene more interesting, the players less likely to burn out and the whole thing sound much less like, well, the example given. ^_^
    Do you think you could give an illustrative example?

    (Just curious!)
  • This is actually exactly how "freeform" chat-based roleplaying works when it comes to combat. With the addition of future interaction (which has quite an effect, just like it does in games in iterative game theory), local social norms, etc.
  • Yeah, this is exactly the reason game mechanics were invented, to stop the cops & robbers effect:

    Robber: I shoot you
    Cop: I have a bullet proof vest
    Robber: My bullets are armor piercing
    Cop: I have an underlayer of armor piercing protection
    Robber: I come up and punch you
    Cop: I magically appear behind you
    Robber: Hey wait, aren't you just a cop?
    Cop: No, i'm also an awesome wizard of the golden court!

    I also quite enjoy rolling dice. There's just something about it. :-)

    -Oni
    http://www.thirdeyegames.net
  • Posted By: First Onii'm also an awesome wizard of the golden court!
    Regular wizards are so played out. Why isn't Awesome Wizard a D&D class?

  • Yeah, how else can we enjoy our narrativist violence emo-porn?
    WIN!
    Regular wizards are so played out. Why isn't Awesome Wizard a D&D class?
    WIN WIN!
  • Posted By: Paul T.
    Do you think you could give an illustrative example?

    (Just curious!)
    Ehm, well, I'm somewhat too tired to post a full-blown example dialogue, but imagine a film noir/hardboiled detective story. In a conflict that's about, dunno, finding some crook willing to talk, the player mights pend much more details on just narrating the eternal rain, the brothels neons sad reflection in the oudles on the street and the stink of stale beer and desperation in the bars then what the character actually does. So instead of saying "I/My character does this and then he does that and then I do that..." it's more about the surrounding, the scenery, the way the camera moves or whatever. Flashbacks, memories, voice-overs, whatever: All great detail material and often, IMO, more interesting then the characters actual actions.

    Or take the battle from Kung-Fu Hustle: Sure, narrating kicks, punches and wild wire-fu is nice, but describing the small details, like how the first chord just chips the stone, is just as much, if not more important. Limiting yourself to the characters action is much less interesting, both for myself as well as the other players-as-audience, then include the whole range or narration.
  • Ah, gotcha!

    Think as the cameraman does, not as the character. :)

    Makes sense.
  • edited June 2008
    Posted By: Paul T.
    Think as the cameraman does, not as the character. :)
    Or the directer, scriptwiter or even special effects coordinator, whatever. Some games might need less cameramen and more, dunno, history majors.

    To me it comes back to describing what I as a player am interested in, instead of limiting myself to what some fictional construct happens to do. So if we're playing some gritty WW2 thing, one player might inject more flying, exploding dirt and the screams of the wounded while another has the hots for tanks and heavy machine guns and that will probably influence the way they narrate. (Hopefully making the game more fun for everybody.)
  • Posted By: First OniYeah, this is exactly the reason game mechanics were invented, to stop the cops & robbers effect:
    It's a shame that the cops'n'robbers effect lasts so long for a significant number of gamers.
  • Well, I don't like having to sit out, so if there's a cops-and-robbers loophole to exploit, I'll exploit it to stay in the game.

    In other words: No, I am not dead (unless you have, like some awesome books at your house I can read while everyone else finishes up the game or something.)

    So, yeah. The cops and robbers effect. I don't mind being dead if I can still play, but if I can't play when I'm dead, then I'm not dead, got me?
    Nor am I:
    trapped forever beneath a rock I can't lift
    trapped in a time loop
    on a bus headed for the Upper Penninsula without a Return Ticket
    asleep for a thousand, thousand years
    trapped in a time loop
    enslaved to some mind-numbing device
    imprisoned in the escape-powers-cancelling big house
    so enthralled by your presence that I must sit here and do nothing for the next three hours of play time
    frozen solid
    or trapped in a time loop
  • Dear Arpie:
    Bingo.
  • but! what if, maybe, i dunno, you're . . . trapped in a time loop?
  • edited July 2008
    Robert,

    What comes to mind is that each time your killed, your promoted to new character at a level of power higher than the killer. It doesn't matter what level of power the other guy used (awesome wizard), the rule is your promoted to whatever would be more powerful (whatever you play next, is by definition, more powerful).

    As I see that, with an explorative mindset, you'd milk the situation until it lacks further possibilities before just blowing someone away. Theres no point rushing to a kill, since it's just going to escalate anyway.
  • Posted By: First OniYeah, this is exactly the reason game mechanics were invented, to stop the cops & robbers effect:
    Other solutions include: growing up.

    :P
  • edited July 2008
    Posted By: Ice Cream EmperorPosted By: First OniYeah, this is exactly the reason game mechanics were invented, to stop the cops & robbers effect:
    Other solutions include: growing up.

    :P

    But i'm a Toy 'r Us Kid... :-P

    -Oni
    [url]http://www.thirdeyegames.net[/url]
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