Achievements!

edited January 2009 in Game Design Help
Achievements seem to be all the rage in computer games these days..
(I still haven't got my [Crowned] Achievement in L4D. Yeah, the witch is not nice to me).

Anyhow, I'm going to GM a 7th Seas game and I thought -- I want to get a more Sim feel for the game. I thought, why not Swashbuckly Achievements?

[Glass attacker] I smashed through a window to attack an opponent.
[Death Leap] I leaped over an opponent in battle
[Razor Wit] I humiliated an opponent in public with words alone.
[Shame the Noble] I humiliated a noble or person of importance in public with words alone.

Yeah, as you can see... clever, witty names for these things is not my strong suit.
I figured, the Story Games gang are some of the most witty clever folk around.

So, here's the challenge.
What Swashbuckly achievements sound cool to you?
If Swashbucklers ain't your thing, what cool achievements can you think of your favorite game.. I can think of some really gut wrenching Polaris achievements.
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Comments

  • edited January 2009
    First of all, I'm completely torn by the fact that I think 90% of the implementation of achievements that I've seen in games (like on the PS3/XBox) have been total bullshit.

    And yet, the good implementation of them, which is basically "Left 4 Dead; and a very few of the achievements in Fallout 3", basically reinforce things that the game designers thought would be cool if you did.

    Example of bad ones that everyone uses:
    Player completes the level.
    Player kills 100 opponents (in a game where you're expected to kill thousands).

    Examples of good achievements:
    The one in L4D where you go back and rescue someone.
    The one where you set a friend on fire in order to damage the zombies around them.
    The one in Fallout 3 that you get for creating at least one of every optional jury-rig weapon.
    Completing a scenario/task without taking any damage.

    To that end, I think you're on the right track: Creating achiements that you specifically want to see happen in one or more games.

    And, to that end, I think you need to maybe get some ideas for more achievements, but you should not implement our ideas wholesale; Because in this situation, YOU are the "game designer", and YOUR implementation of achievements/trophies is to encourage the players to do the things YOU want to see happen at your table.

    Still, that's a fucking awesome idea, by making it genre-sepcific: And totally towards what I like about achievements/trophies (which is Very Little, but Exactly This). I expected to see a thread about creating "general gaming achievements" like "Total Party Kill (as GM or player), "100 Enemies Killed", etc.

    -Andy
  • I got the Hydra achievement in Spore by creating a creature with three heads.
  • edited January 2009
    Oh, also, I'd love to see pictures of such achievements as well, but that's just a fantasy.

    But something like having a "stamp pad" on your character sheet, in which you can get stamped as you rack up these achivements. But just remember that they should be things that you (GM) specifically want to see in that specific campaign for that specific game.

    Frex, in a game of Vampire: The Requiem, I'd perhaps do some of these:

    And So It Was...: Roleplaying a flashback to your Embrace.
    Extra Rare, Please: First time hitting a hunger frenzy.
    Panic Attack: First time hitting a fear frenzy.
    Rewind: Having a flashback scene to a previous but relevant thing that happened before the start of the campaign (in either your human or vampire life)
    Saving Grace: Get a Humanity score of 10
    Hell's Cloak: Get a Humanity score of 1
    Empty Bank: Go down to 0 Blood Points
    Play the Part: Get 10 Willpower by playing on your Virtue
    Doomed: Get 10 Willpower by playing on your Vice
    Backstabber: Change Coteries
    ..You Ask Me: Get 5 points in a single Merit
    Level Up!: Raise your Blood Potency by 3 dots

    And then I'd have more specific to the campaign:
    Tell off the Prince; Follow Orders; Sacrifice for the Clan; Sacrifice for the Coterie; etc. basically choosing both "Good Things" and "Bad Things" that I'd expect... nay (again!) WANT... to see characters do in a Vampire game.

    -Andy
  • edited January 2009
    Posted By: Andy
    To that end, I think you're on the right track: Creating achiements that you specifically want to see happen in one or more games.
    This quote reminds me of some kind of GM technique I've read about somewhere. You write up things you'd like to see happen on index cards, maybe with player suggestions and then your players draw a card. They get some kind of reward (Fate Points, XP...) if they make it happen and possibly an even greater reward if they make it happen for another player.

    Anyone recall what that was and where I might have seen that.

    Anyway, to stay on topic. You could basically do it like that - an Index card for each achievement, and when someone get's it he might even get an additional reward. You could also make them exclusive - so that there's only one or so of a kind if you would want to do that.

    In eIther case, it's a really interesting idea...
  • Poison'd did it!
  • edited January 2009
    Swashbuckling Achievements:
    • A Little Light Swinging - Swinging from a chandelier.
    • Run'er a'Midships - the first boarding action
    • Beat to Quarters - the first time you order a sea combat attack
    • Thirsty Work - fighting with a stein of ale in your off hand
    • Slobbery Greetings - kissing a beautiful lady's hand
    • Great dental work! - the first person to imitate the glint of their teeth when they smile
    • May be play through? - First time a sword duel moves fully through a populated room.
    • Doctor Jones' Student - Going back to get a favorite hat
    • Lights, please! - Cutting through the candles on a candelabra (or putting them out) as far of a missed hit in a duel.
    • Ye Olde Doggie Bag - dropping a curtain or tapestry on several opponents to slow them down
    • Ole! - Any use of a cape to defend in a duel
    • How (Maine) Gauche! - using a dagger in your offhand for the first time.
    Just a few there...
  • I was thinking . . .
    After reading Dave’s comments on anyway about leaving some kind of document or viewable thing behind from gaming…

    that the achievements would go on a big piece of paper.
    And then when someone earned that achievement they’d write down their character’s name, and the context in which it happened. I’m imagining something like the Mindtool’s brainstorming thing.

    You’d also write the achievement down on your character sheet too, of course.

    Long ago, when playing Cthulhu, if your character went crazy, my friend Dan came up with the idea that you then had to draw something really crazy, cut it out of paper, and then tape it to a big black sheet of poster board I had swiped from school.

    That picture still hangs in my old bedroom at my parent’s house.

    JuddG, those are exactly what I was thinking about—thanks.
  • I think handled right, achievements could be pretty awesome. The game would have to be something that's not to immersive, slightly ironic, or that encourages metagaming. In the right game of PTA or D&D, they could be great. Choosing the achievements would also matter. You want a mix of cool stuff that happens naturally and things worth striving for, plus maybe a few boobie prizes for terrible luck or getting pwned.
  • Posted By: TulpaAchievement Unlocked

    Play this.
    I was just coming in here to post that, damnit.
  • The advancement system for my best-MMO-ever-that-lives-in-my-head is 100% achievement-based. So you could say I am a fan.

    But, achievements in a tabletop game, I don't know. I mean, part of the appeal of achievements in a computer game is that they also share things in common with easter eggs: getting an achievement by accident, 'just by playing the game', is the kind of archetypal moment. Getting obscure achievements that other people might not even have thought existed. So does the GM create a hidden list? I think that in a tabletop RPG this would feel a bit weird, kind of out-of-synch with the way the rest of play was happening. Were you planning on making the achievements public, or maintaining that element of 'surprise, you just did the 'right' thing by accident'?
  • I like the idea of achievements. I think they could be used to reinforce cultural norms in a game where that's important. If there are things that are culturally significant, they can be achievements. The first time you kill a monster, your first child, the first time you go over the horizon in your boat, whatever makes sense. If there's a tangible reward, it makes sense both in game and metagame to pursue things you ought to be pursuing to be a complete and respected person in that society. Until you rack up the requisite achievements, or a set number, you are still a child.
  • Thanks for the ideas guys ! It's actually a very clever way to focus a game that would work with trad' players.
  • Another couple of ideas for the mix, from my games:

    From Errantry:
    In medieval stories, people’s designations are almost more important than their personal names. In the course of your adventure, the people you meet will become known to you first of all by their designations (The Knight of the High Tower, the Maiden of the Dark Sorrow, the Hermit of the Forest of Evening…). Only later, if at all, will you learn their names.
    As a questing character, however, you begin the game with a personal name, and in the course of your adventure you may earn a designation based on your remarkable actions. At any point in the adventure, your companions - the other players - may Award the Accolade, giving your character a designation reflecting some outstanding quality he or she has displayed or some spectacular success he or she has achieved. You may, of course, accept or reject the accolade bestowed. If you accept it, write it on your character sheet.
    And the Pentasystem (in progress):
    A path is a way of formally structuring a situation which is set up to change in particular ways, resulting in both further challenges and further opportunities. The revelation of the existence of a path can act as an "inciting moment", the event or incident which plunges the characters into the action which will make up the rest of the story.
    There are "plot-level paths", "character-level paths" and "attribute-level paths". The distinction affects how complex the path is and how many points it has, as well as what it applies to.
    A plot-level path can be worked on by multiple characters.
    A character-level path is typically a goal or dilemma relating to a specific character, and that character mainly works on it (though others can help if fictionally appropriate)...
    An attribute-level path is typically a complication which relates to a specific attribute of a specific character, and only that character can work on it...

    The essentials of a path are:
    • There is a situation that is pregnant with possibilities for change. This is the "path".
    • There is an entry point, something which draws the character(s) onto the path.
    • There are steps along the path. Some of these may themselves be paths, some may be scenes (with conflicts), some may be sequels (without conflicts). They are conditions under which the change will occur, and which are well-defined (and known to the players, though not necessarily the characters).
    It may be necessary to fulfill all or only some of the conditions in order to complete the path.
    • There is an attainment, an upside to bringing the change about - something you can do after traversing the path that you couldn't do before, or some resource you have that you didn't have before. This may be fully or partly specified.
    • There's also a downside, a cost, a complication, an additional challenge that wasn't there before. This may well be a new path, or it may be a new attribute that comes into existence in the situation.
    • Optionally, there may be a threat, a cost to not resolving the situation (traversing the path). For example, the path may be "prevent a bad thing happening". If the path is not successfully traversed, the bad thing will happen (and this will itself create new paths). The threat engages with characters' motivating attributes to make them enter the path.
  • Posted By: TulpaAchievement Unlocked
    He beat me to it.

    For a good use of achievement-type gaming, see the use of taglines in The Dying Earth RPG. Gaining XP relies on working certain phrases into the game. This can be frustrating sometimes, but really does push the game towards a certain style. Perhaps you could create a giant stack of index cards and hand them out as XP or fate chips when people meet the right criteria.

    I might have to include this idea in the next version of Console. The advantage there is that the players can spend Patience to pretend that they're going to GameFAQs to look stuff up. :)
  • I kind of like the idea of an RPG in which experience points are rewarded solely based upon the completion of secret achievements. Ideally, the list should be huge, and involve many things that could be done accidentally, ala Achievement Unlocked.

    GM: Ding-ding-ding! For spending an ten full minutes considering all your possible tactical options before finally deciding to simply 'attack' you've unlocked the 'Analysis Paralysis' achievement! Take 10 experience points, but from now on you get two minutes to make your decisions. I'll be timing you.
  • Posted By: fnord3125
    GM: Ding-ding-ding! For spending an ten full minutes considering all your possible tactical options before finally deciding to simply 'attack' you've unlocked the 'Analysis Paralysis' achievement! Take 10 experience points, but from now on you get two minutes to make your decisions. I'll be timing you.
    That's hilarious. I've been in those games.

    In a Stories from the Shelter game I'm running now we have "Wouldn't it be cool if..." index cards that anyone is allowed to write (what are effectively) achievements on and then set bounties on them. The bounties come from the players' own Chutzpah cache ( a Fate-like resource pool, or so I've been told) and whoever triggers the achievement gets the bounty. It worked pretty well for a while, but it has recently stagnated. I'll have to see about replenishing the list.
  • I've never understood those things.

    The flash up on the screen when I play games and I'm not sure what to make of them. I'm not sure what they bring me. It's interesting to have stuff flash up on screen occasionally but I don't know why I'd want to change what I do in order to get more of that kind of thing to happen. Isn't it basically the same thing as the 80's fondness for giving extra XP to people who roleplay their characters?
  • Well, in Xbox-land (Microsoft requires all games to have them, otherwise they can not be cleared for sale; Sony just started implementing a similar program) you get these "marks" on your "online gamer cred card". So someone can brag to their (14 year old) friends, "Look Bitches, for I am awesome: I have 5 Platinum achievements, 10 Gold achievements, and several hundred Silver and Bronze achievements". That's all.

    And yet, for those deep into video games, there are people who simply will not buy games unless they have achievement/trophy support (this is why Sony moved from a stance of "you can include them if you want" to "all must have trophies"; someone figured that they were losing sales on games that didn't have trophies). Also, you'll find games that use them totally uncreatively, or in a "cheating" way: Deaqd Space is an awesome game, but its trophies are totally uninspired: You get them for clearing levels as normal, and for "killing X baddies". There are a few cool trophies tho, like "cleared the game using only the basic weapon", but most are "meh".
    And on top of that, the "cheating" way: Apparently the very shitty King Kong XBox game had some sort of achievement at a high level that you can attain for doing very little work, on the second level or something. So rentals of that game are really high, to basically get those XPs on the Gaming Cred Card, and toss the game back. Even friends of mine, who I wouldn't call "heavy gamers", rented that game for that very reason.

    BUT, as I mentioned above, I think some of the achievements/trophies are interesting; they basically give you a look behind the scenes of a game, to behaviors that the actual designers themselves consider:

    *Rewarding/fun : Stuff that a designer said, "Man, it would be awesome if the player actually did all the little side-quests I set up".
    *Integral to the 'Experience' of the Game: Basically, the stuff that you would expect to see in the genre, just reinforced: Like, the one in Left 4 Dead where you get a reward the first time you reach safety, but then step out of safety to go back and help a comerade.
    *Easter-egg-y : The "Irony" achievement in Bioshock, where the evil boss tells you to do something to other people; and you instead do it to him.
    *Extremely challenging, like wearing leg-weights at a marathon : Defeat the game using weakest weapon, etc. Defeat 1000 enemies.

    I find the top two very interesting, especially in an RPG context. Especially the second. My "Vampire" achievements all fall into that second category, "Integral to the 'Experience' of the game".

    Another way of thinking about it? They're Flags, but just for the GM instead of the Player. The players give their flags to the GM, who uses them to incorporate that behavior into the game. Likewise, the GM could use Achievements in this way to basically give the players a way to incorporate behaviors that the GM would like to see in the game (and of course, at their leisure: Not EVERY character needs to walk on tightropes or tell off the local governor; but there will be some that will want to).

    I love this idea, now.
  • Army of Two has some of my favorite Achievements. You get them for particular styles of play, all of which are functional if you figure out how to do them. And it doesn't hurt that most of them are colorful movie references:

    Kill enough guys by hand-to-hand: "Flip you, flip you for real"
    Kill enough guys with the .44 magnum: "Do you feel lucky, punk?"
    Kill enough guys with the shotgun: "This is my BOOMSTICK!"

    When I started using a shotgun with a Desert Eagle as my sidearm, I got the "Weapon Specialist" Achievement for using nothing but heavy-weight weapons with mad stopping power, low effective range, slow fire rate, and slow reloading. I liked that it rewarded me for putting all my eggs into my "run up into their face and blast them to hell and damnation before they can shoot me enough times to take me down" strategy (which works, when your partner knows how to work with you on it).
  • The medals in 3:16 seem like an in game instance of this, although they don't really go beyond "killed 1000 guys", "lasted 5 missions", although there are some "bravery" and "excellent work in the defense of Terra" ones if I recall.
  • edited January 2009
    Posted By: AndyWell, in Xbox-land (Microsoft requires all games to have them, otherwise they can not be cleared for sale; Sony just started implementing a similar program) you get these "marks" on your "online gamer cred card". So someone can brag to their (14 year old) friends, "Look Bitches, for I am awesome: I have 5 Platinum achievements, 10 Gold achievements, and several hundred Silver and Bronze achievements". That's all.
    Ah.

    I see.

    Not being 14, I fail to see the attraction of this.

    EDIT : Actually that came across as jerky. Just saying that I still don't get the point... so what... people boast to each other about how good they are at videogames? this actually happens? I had no idea. Do people also boast about how good they are at jerking off? is this some whole world of masculine bonding activities that I have never been privy to?
  • edited January 2009
    I remember when I was a callow youth, it was not uncommon when talking about a videogame to mention whether you were awesome at that game. The question was always how you could prove it, though. With arcade games it was easy, because you might have your initials in the top ten...but what about on your Atari at home? Maybe you actually totally fucking sucked at Super Breakout, and you were just lying about how awesome you were the same way you lied about everything else in your short life. Who the hell are you to claim videogame mastery? I SAW THE RAINBOW EXPLOSION ON SPACE INVADERS DELUXE, YOU LITTLE PUNK! YOU AREN'T FIT TO FETCH TOKENS FROM THE COIN MACHINE FOR ME!

    *cough*...er...I mean, yeah, kids absolutely used to brag about videogame prowess, and I doubt that the world has changed that much in the past few decades. It's not so much "I've got five Platinum achievements and you've got four, ha ha, I win," but more "See how good I am at this? Yay for me, right?"


    I have to confess that I like achievements a little bit. I like it when they make me laugh (Valve is especially good at this, especially in Team Fortress 2), and I also like it when earning them gives you fun little benefits (as in Mass Effect, where many of the achievements give you bonuses in subsequent playthroughs). I'm not so much for the bragging anymore, though, so I don't usually pimp my profile to anyone. (Besides, those damn 14 year olds would kick my ass if I tried.)
  • I like Achievements. In a gaming environment that is becoming more and more sandboxy, having distinct goals that you can try to accomplish is nice. I don't really boast about them, though.
  • For me the appeal is often that the game has acknowledged something about how I play the game, some aspect of my style or approach that is atypical -- or, even better, it has told me something about how I am playing the game that I hadn't noticed before.
  • My (somewhat) hypothetical "Agon revised" has Achievements, which are indeed cool little icons that you get to add to your character sheet, Xbox style. You earn them for doing appropriately heroic stuff, and they're worth Glory of course. You can also earn the "elite" version of an Achievement by boasting about what specific one you're going to get before the session starts. "I shall be the one to claim the head of the Gorgon!"

    I think there's a lot of potential here.
  • I wonder if perhaps the sister to achievements would be titles,

    and by sister, I mean the easy sister.

    Titles like acheivements are rewarded for appropiate actions, and have little reward to them beside perceived prestiege and the fact you have it. But unlike achievements could actually be kinda useful to the ingame fiction that may or may not happen in an rpg.

    God knows I enjoy when my Hunter Dora gets the 'The Explorer' Title on some mmo eviliness, it seems like something closer to that fictional space than say Achievment you played the game motherfucker good job, go buy the expansion to get the achievement, "and you payed for college too"

    Logos
  • Who doesn't like a little smack-talk?

    You, the one who just raised your hand? Check your pulse, 'cause I'm pretty sure you're dead.

    Smack-talk and friendly rivalries are fucking awesome. When my wife got into TF2, we were constantly comparing our achievements and stats. When she'd beat me in something, I'd be like "Nice, babe!" Then I'd fiendishly try to outdo her. Then there was "How'd you get that one?? I've been playing twice as long as you, and I JUST got it!"

    A non-game example from recent experience: NaNoWriMo. Shane and I were smack-talkin' back and forth, which got me feeling competitive, and seeing as how I had all the time in the world, I zoomed ahead of him. It drove me to excel, and I think maybe it's what helped get him across the finish line, too. It was definitely friendly, 'cause as soon as I hit my wordcount, I turned cheerleader, and I was genuinely pleased when several other S-G chums made it. Achievements are largely the same thing. You can brag because you got it, which encourages your friends to get it too, but that doesn't lessen your accomplishment, so you can be glad for them. If you and I both have this achievement, then we're both awesome. If your score is higher than mine, then you're better than me, which may make me happy for you, but damnit, now I'm not the best, so there's a teensy bit of resentment potential.

    Achievements also allow you to compete against yourself. You know there's an achievement you get for healing X number of points in a single match or without dying.. And you start to want it. I got level 1. I healed 1000 points without dying. Next time, I get 990. Damn! Not as good as my best. Next time, I'm awesome, and I heal 1500, which is way better than 1000, but not good enough for level 2, which is 2000. So I've got to be even better than that.. Then of course, there's level 3, which takes 5000...
  • Posted By: WolfeAchievements also allow you to compete against yourself. You know there's an achievement you get for healing X number of points in a single match or without dying.. And you start to want it. I got level 1. I healed 1000 points without dying. Next time, I get 990. Damn! Not as good as my best. Next time, I'm awesome, and I heal 1500, which is way better than 1000, but not good enough for level 2, which is 2000. So I've got to be even better than that.. Then of course, there's level 3, which takes 5000...
    I swear, every time Team Fortress 2 tells me that I almost tied my record for something, I can hear my heart make a tiny gasping sound, and it drives me to try harder next round. And every time it tells me that I set a new record for myself, I pump my fist and want to announce it to everyone within earshot.

    Feedback like that is highly underrated. Just compiling the data is cool in its own right: look at how games like the Grand Theft Auto series and various CRPGs feature stats screens listing the number of cars you stole or creatures you killed or the cash value of all the loot you ran off with. It's stuff that you don't really keep track of for yourself, but gives you a little thrill when you hear the actual running tally. It's such a simple, stupid little thing (which is why computers are so good at doing it), but it produces such a wonderful effect!

    Admittedly, I don't know how someone could work that into a tabletop game without having to do a fuckton of note-taking, but certainly the appeal of Achievements (which are much easier to track, comparatively) is a solid one, even beyond simple bragging rights.
  • Posted By: John HarperMy (somewhat) hypothetical "Agon revised" has Achievements, which are indeed cool little icons that you get to add to your character sheet, Xbox style. You earn them for doing appropriately heroic stuff, and they're worth Glory of course. You can also earn the "elite" version of an Achievement by boasting about what specific one you're going to get before the session starts. "I shall be the one to claim the head of the Gorgon!"

    I think there's a lot of potential here.
    Can you package achievement stickers with neat little designs on them with this hypothetical "Agon revised"?

    The joy of earning an achievement is very much like the joy of getting a star sticker in elementary school.
  • edited January 2009
    We had this discussion on here a while back, which I cannot find right now, about secrets/revelations. People suggested having secrets that the players could uncover, and that in turn would trigger something. Usually something they weren't aware of before. That's how I'd do achievements, basically. Lay out some goals or potential events, determine a consequence, and let players discover what it is when they decide to achieve it.

    P.S.: Beast Hunters' tattoos are meant as badges of achievement. In fact, it was important for me to have cool art for them in order for them to be more desirable as earned rewards.
  • Posted By: Tulpa

    Can you package achievement stickers with neat little designs on them with this hypothetical "Agon revised"?

    The joy of earning an achievement is very much like the joy of getting a star sticker in elementary school.
    I was thinking maybe you could put them some right on the character sheet, in a light grey tone. It both informs you that they exist and then, if you earn the achievement you can color it in.

    I guess there'd be too many for that to be usable though...
  • Posted By: DeBracyI was thinking maybe you could put them some right on the character sheet, in a light grey tone. It both informs you that they exist and then, if you earn the achievement you can color it in.
    Yep, that's what I was thinking, too. If there are too many, you could have a separate achievements sheet.

    And, Christian, BH tattoos are totally achievements! Cool.
  • Posted By: John HarperMy (somewhat) hypothetical "Agon revised" has Achievements, which are indeed cool little icons that you get to add to your character sheet, Xbox style. You earn them for doing appropriately heroic stuff, and they're worth Glory of course. You can also earn the "elite" version of an Achievement by boasting about what specific one you're going to get before the session starts. "I shall be the one to claim the head of the Gorgon!"

    I think there's a lot of potential here.
    This makes me happy.
  • Posted By: Andy
    Another way of thinking about it?They're Flags, but just for the GM instead of the Player. The players give their flags to the GM, who uses them to incorporate that behavior into the game. Likewise, the GM could use Achievements in this way to basically give the players a way to incorporate behaviors that the GM would like to see in the game (and of course, at their leisure: Not EVERY character needs to walk on tightropes or tell off the local governor; but there will be some that will want to).
    I've strongly considered something like this in TSoY, tied to the keys and such. I love the sorts of stories created when players go hardcore with the Key Jujuitsu and really mean it, but it takes most players a while to figure out how to really drive keys hard. So now it's the third session, and I start it by saying "Okay, first player to buy off a key gets an extra three xp."
  • Posted By: Christian GriffenWe had this discussion on here a while back, which I cannot find right now, about secrets/revelations. People suggested having secrets that the players could uncover, and that in turn would trigger something. Usually something they weren't aware of before. That's how I'd do achievements, basically. Lay out some goals or potential events, determine a consequence, and let players discover what it is when they decide to achieve it.
    It was here, Christian, and it was the direct inspiration for my Pentasystem Paths.
  • TF2's achievement/feedback system is a thing of beauty. You know what else is? Peggle. When you hit that last orange peg and Ode to Joy breaks out and fireworks shoot up, it's like a hit of straight endorphin. No one, NO ONE is immune.

    The old d6 Men in Black and DC Universe games had dialogue/action cards, where you got a bonus if you did the thing on the card. It could be a line of dialogue or an action. Not much was done with it to my great disappointment. I like these ideas, though. Analysis Paralysis is terrific...I'm actually thinking of them as learning tools.

    And there's no need to have them hidden from the players! For achievement junkies such as myself, I tend to play more and more if I am trying to unlock an achievement.
  • Crackdown has spectacular achievements. Some of them are boring like "Wipe out all the gangs" but others are more fun like "Use explosives to keep a car in the air for 7 seconds." That's an awesome achievement. So is "Blow up 25 gang members in 60 seconds."

    Crackdown is a perfect open world game, strong in structure, light on filler, and it rewards you for exploration every step of the way, even without achievements, though earning achievements through play is still quite nice, I can jump from rooftop to rooftop all day.

    I have problem's with Team Fortress 2's achievements. They feel like filler. Heal 1000000 hit points? Seriously? And they got worse when Valve realized that half the people were cheating on those achievements, so they made them even MORE tedious. Everything else about the game is pitch perfect though so I forgive it. So is the initial set of achievements before the weapon expansions.
  • edited January 2009
    Given that I have rather adverse reaction to such schemes*, I'd probably try to have the longest-play-without-achievement record.
  • Better Never Than Late -- Play the longest of anyone at the table without earning any other Achievement
  • What if you had player-written achievements and the GM didn't know about all of them? You couldn't win your own achievement, of course...you could be playing along and all of a sudden your pal hands you a card: "You killed 100 gnolls! I hate those freakin' gnolls."
  • edited January 2009
    Posted By: Accounting for TasteBetter Never Than Late -- Play the longest of anyone at the table without earning any other Achievement
    In that case I'll try to get some of my like-minded-pal into the game... nobody will earn it.

    In case achievements are inevitable, I'd probably try to not use anything I earned this way or try to destroy it.

    Yeah, I've got a problem, I know. [Maybe the remain of an adolescent watch-me-I-am-unusual-and-rebelling trait?]
  • Posted By: Ajax AldwyneIn case achievements are inevitable, I'd probably try to not use anything I earned this way or try to destroy it.
    Keep It In The Lockbox -- Go the entire length of the campaign without using any bonuses or benefits earned via other Achievements
    Walk Away While It Burns -- Upon earning an Achievement, eliminate any possible benefit (current or future) gained via that Achievement


    :D
  • Achievements don't HAVE to have any tangible reward. Simply having the point-to-it-and-grin factor of having an annotated achievement you can point to and grin is frequently reward enough. Most, but not all, Valve achievements are of this type.
  • Posted By: JDCorleyWhat if you had player-written achievements and the GM didn't know about all of them? You couldn't win your own achievement, of course...you could be playing along and all of a sudden your pal hands you a card: "You killed 100 gnolls! I hate those freakin' gnolls."
    That's pretty awesome.
  • Posted By: Accounting for TasteKeep It In The Lockbox -- Go the entire length of the campaign without using any bonuses or benefits earned via other Achievements
    Walk Away While It Burns -- Upon earning an Achievement, eliminate any possible benefit (current or future) gained via that Achievement

    :D
    >_<

    ;-)
  • Posted By: JDCorleyWhat if you had player-written achievements and the GM didn't know about all of them? You couldn't win your own achievement, of course...you could be playing along and all of a sudden your pal hands you a card: "You killed 100 gnolls! I hate those freakin' gnolls."
    Steal Away Jordan does this. Players have secret goals for their characters, and if they fulfill them, they get a bonus (I forget exactly what).

    Also, I'm creating a game for a contest that does something similar. I might post it here when it's done.
  • I think there are awesome achievements in the Half-life series (Portal, Episode One, etc.), too. (Kill a Zombine with its own grenade, etc.) And what awesome is, there were unregistered achievements in earlier games, too. In Half-life 1: you could save most of the NPCs, some were a pain in the butt to save, but it was fun to achieve it.

    Now I can't think of anything else then competing with other players making bets.

    But I think I'm offtopic with this now.
  • Posted By: WolfeAchievements don't HAVE to have any tangible reward. Simply having the point-to-it-and-grin factor of having an annotated achievement you can point to and grin is frequently reward enough. Most, but not all, Valve achievements are of this type.
    This Is Important.

    Exactly. I think just their very existence makes them awesome in the way that, if a player *wants* to take on that challenge, they'll do it. If they aren't interested in the challenge, they won't do it.

    Tangbile reward? Completion! Or "A mark on my character sheet". No need of permanent die bonus or anything. Maybe one reward is that, in the attempt to hit that achievement ("Social Outmanuvering Of The Local Aristocratic Mayor" in a swashbuckling game), the GM secretly or not-so-secretly lowers the difficulty rating or something.

    *All* video game achievements/trophies in games are like that. There is no tangible benefit other than a mark on your Gamer Card somewhere. And likewise, some players obsessively colelct them all because that's what they're into, while others only aim for the interesting ones, while yet others simply don't go out of their way to hit any of them.
    Posted By: algiAnd what awesome is, there were unregistered achievements in earlier games, too. In Half-life 1: you could save most of the NPCs, some were a pain in the butt to save, but it was fun to achieve it.
    In the Final Fantasy community (check out the Final Fantasy X boards on gamefaqs.com), there are a lot of these "unspoken achievements", many of them created by the fanbase. One such achievement is "complete the game without once using the levelling up system" and the like.

    -Andy
  • Posted By: MatthijsSteal Away Jordan does this. Players have secret goals for their characters, and if they fulfill them, they get a bonus (I forget exactly what).
    Well, the oomf of my idea was that it came from another player, so you wouldn't know what goals the other players had for you.
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