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Neurotrash

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  • @Johann said: I always took the Lumpley principle as an (important) observation rather than a mission statement, i.e. everyone's agreement has been necessary all along. We just didn't realize it and deferred to the GM. Yeah. I never thought of it as…
  • Just my two cents on the "real" thing. 1. Treating imaginary things as "real" is a fun, healthy activity which is a major part of our hobby. 2. Treating imaginary things as real is an issue that might require medication or hospitalization. I don'…
  • @2097 Yes, I was contradicting your position. I didn't agree with it when I wrote this analogy. This was an attempt to explain why, or at least work out the reasons for my position. I have since altered my views (see the other thread). This whol…
    in Cards Comment by Neurotrash June 16
  • @2097 Before I say anything else, I want to apologize. Looking back over my posts, I can see how they could be construed as dismissive. Please know that was not my intent. So what is my intent? My intent with this whole exercise is to try and c…
  • Processing all of this going to take some time. @2097 Whoa! I didn't accuse you of that. The whole crux of my argument is that your statements make perfect sense when one understands the context, and that misunderstanding the context is the resul…
  • 40 years of RPG theory have claimed that a deck of cards and a framed picture are the same thing and behave according to the same rules. They don't. The entirety of the last post was just a restatement of this.
  • If you frame the deck, you can no longer manipulate it or play a game with it. Only the card on top matters, because it’s the only one we can see in the frame. We can now only look at it as art judging it on aesthetics. There is no game state anymor…
  • In poker, I'm asked to believe that you have been dealt a hand of immutable but unknown cards out of the set of 52. Similarly, the card at the top of the deck is also an immutable but unknown member of that set. From how some of the peeps on here …
  • PART 1: ROLEPLAY, GAMING, and ARTING ROLEPLAYING is an activity that involves participating in (at least) two separate activities simultaneously. I currently make no claims that these two activities are the totality of what is happening when one is…
  • Okay. There’s a lot to do here. Before I go any further, I just want to make something very clear. I am not here to defend a comprehensive model that I have made up. I am here to formulate a new model in public in the hopes that others can point ou…
  • @Jeph There's a lot to mull over there. But it's Friday night and I'm not gonna be able do it justice until tomorrow. But I'm looking forward to sinking my teeth into that and either strengthening my argument or realizing everything I've said is r…
  • Peli and Leikki are no longer being used because 2097's description of their definitions up thread make me realize they're not really what I'm going for.
  • @Jeph MY NONSENSE WORDS! MY BEAUTIFUL NONSENSE WORDS!!!!! You're right, that was never gonna fly long-term. But I'm not using "Structured Play" and "Structured Creation" because I want a one word terms, and the word "Play" can apply (with differe…
  • I think I've corrected all the misspelled occurrences of "LEIKKI". Sorry about that. I meant no disrespect toward Finnish.* *Realizing fully well that I previously said, "Finnish sucks," but I also said, "English sucks" in the same sentence, and …
  • Now, onto the discussion. @2097 According to Thanuir there isn’t a term for playing an instrument that isn’t PELI. This will not do. I will amend the statement I said in the other thread: English AND Finnish suck. But… I’m prepared to declare Z…
  • You're right. My first post was an attempt to engage with the OP, but I've definitely veered into Threadjacking territory. I'll start a new thread shortly where we can discuss this and I'll address the above points. (sorry!)
  • In this analogy, Vanking a game of chess is considering it as a series of FEN positions and Zonking a game of chess is considering it as the algebraic protocol. As is often the case, I'm not sure what you mean by this. But I don't think it's what…
  • @AsIf I don't think we're talking about the same thing when we're talking about Zonking. Or we are, and I'm not far enough down the road to make the connections you're making about my own concept I don't equate Zonking with the act of imaginati…
  • @Jeph I don't think "performing" is the term I want. It's performance, but's also the act of translating the actions of the game into fiction, so it's writing and editing. And it's consumption of the thing performed. So it's being an audience. M…
  • @Thanuir I totally agree with everything you just said, concerning poker. It doesn't sit completely right as a description of what's going on in an RPG though. Is this the problem, perhaps? (Maybe this should be its own thread, but I'm responding…
  • That is not the definition of game state we are working with. We are working with a definition of game state where all kinds of things can be thrown in there & made canon & maaaybe be retrieved later depending on what happens. I wasn't…
  • @Jeph said; 1. You believe that Alice isn't really a 1st level fighter until I write it down. 2. You believe that Alice isn't really a 1st level fighter until I share it with someone else. 3. You believe that Alice's hit point total is undefined…
  • Furthermore, I would even argue that if your character sheet says, "Lockpicking 95%," but every time you attempt to pick a lock you manage to fail your roll, assuming this ends up narrated as you just not being able to do it (instead of being justif…
  • I would love to see how 2b and 2c have been used in game design. I would argue that neither is meaningful. 2b. You can obviously decide in your head that your character has a tattoo. It can't have a meaningful effect on play until you communicate t…
  • I think we're approaching a point where we discover we are dealing with different beliefs about the fundamental nature of Truth. If Alice is a Fighter with 16 CON and we're playing 5E, but I miscalculate and write 15 HP on my sheet, but nobody eve…
  • There's some gonzo, but nothing beyond repair. Ironically, the game's genre is going to be "Gonzo Fantasy". Part of that choice was the fact it would be much easier for everyone to justify what's "normal" and "expected" when you can have robots …
  • To me, the best part with this model is not the game state (we already knew how to manage hidden information etc.) It's that it provides a standing point to have a look at the SIS from a distance. And see a Shared Imagination is an unicorn. Can yo…
  • @2097 said: In Swedish we have an expression. Don’t go cross the river to fetch water. Instead of going all the way out to this extra-SIS (the MIS) to validate all your SIS operations, you can operate directly on the MIS since it is a strict su…
  • Okay, I think I agree then. It's more of a matter of agenda/priority than a description about what is happening in the game. If anything, this thread has convinced me that such a thing as the Game State exists. I might have argued against that fac…
  • • In a no-myth model’s view of an OSR game in progress, the secret door is constructed by the DM looking at their map, seeing the secret door there, and adding it to the SIS. • In a blorb view of an OSR game in progress, the secret door is in that w…
  • So, for my own edification and clarification, at this point the debate is about whether: An RPG is a conversation about what happens in the SIS. The system (as understood by the B-C-B Principle) is what we use to decide how that conversation is all…
  • If you could give more concrete personality to the "Guys" archetypes, for instance Big Dumb, Innocent Guy and Smart socially awkward, too curious Guy You might have a basic model to hang an interpersonal niche protection system on.
  • D&D classes are entirely based around ability niche protection. It doesn't really have personality niche protection. Any D&D class could map to pretty much any of the 5-Man-Band archetypes (the Wizard's probably not gonna be the Big Guy, but…
  • I think that's a great question, @Paul_T I mean, the only real reason to try to incorporate it is that it's a pretty regular part of certain kinds of adventure/action stories (lots of old 80's cartoons, for instance) and it's one way to provide a …
  • I've messed around with designing around the idea in the past (as well as some of the other Cast Calculus concepts found on TVTropes) but I always end up frustrated. I think one of the main problems with the concept is that it isn't completely base…
  • Can you explain how these 5 techniques specifically hurt No Myth design? I understand you think that if one is using them in a non-blorb game one "isn't taking advantage" of the opportunity to make the game full-blorb, but that's like saying that e…
  • But I just joined! Is this my fault? Seriously though, this place is great and I really hope this community finds a place to rendezvous and regroup. I'll add my voice to saying I hope it's not a Discord. I'm active on the DW discord, and though I'…
  • (Now I'm just using this thread to ask what terms from other threads mean...I am googling first...but not having a lot of luck) Zilch play?
  • Something that might be helpful, which I haven't seen done so far, is define exactly what constitutes "traditional techniques". What, specifically, falls under that category, what doesnt? If we have a specific list, I think it would be easier to ar…
  • Can you explain what "gloracle" means? I keep seeing it used in the narr vs blorb thread.
  • Oh! I didn't recognize the terms without the first, English half... So, despite a fear of sounding completely ignorant...are the second, non-english half of your terms from another language, or are they just made-up additions because just calling i…
  • A definition of "blorby" might be in order...at least for me.
  • (continuing my thought process) so in other words, fate points as HP - something you have to whittle down or accrue in order to "unlock" certain abilities/situations that otherwise would be anticlimatic if they occurred immediately?
  • What about as a fiction-emulation/pacing mechanism? You have to build up points by engaging in negative character behaviors or experiencing/accepting negative situations before you can confront your personal demons...or a real demon for that matter…
  • Interesting. Where were the two sides of the issue generally from?
  • I'm gonna have to give some serious thought to whether I agree with that statement or not...
  • Here's a question...@AlexanderWhite Does it change your feelings if, instead of the GM offering you a fate point to shoot up, you just have a "power" on your character sheet that says, "Whenever you choose to engage in your addiction in a situation…
  • I think, ideally, that it's both. You (I assume) chose "junkie" as an aspect when you created the character so that you could explore that issue and be compelled to end up making bad choices at inopportune times... In other words, you're being offe…
  • Thanks! As far as the links, they both go to the right (separate) games. I've noticed, however, that on my phone anytime I click a link to DriveThruRPG it takes me to the last DriveThruRPG page I was on, so it will keep taking you to the same game…