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Adam_Dray

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  • What I'm saying is that since you can only have one name on there, and we see from people here like Adam_Dray who put in adamdray instead of Adam_Dray that people aren't putting in their S-G names anyway, ALIASED
  • I'll respond eventually. Just been busy and this takes a good chunk of time to engage and digest.
  • Yeah, I'm trying to nail down the "in species" distinction, to understand what you (Vincent) mean by gamestate here. It's probably a good idea to wait for you to share the demo game you're working on. Maybe it will clear things up.
  • Because "game state" isn't the same as "the fiction." If this was chess, with zero fiction, you'd have no problem having non-imaginary game state stuff, like "you touched a piece without moving it" in there. Or if you play Magic: The Gathering, …
  • @lumpley, What you describe is a process, which puts a fact into a player's head and into the gamestate at the same time, and that fact might contradict another fact in their head or another player's head. Are you saying that there's no basis of t…
  • It sounds like you're talking about a centralized one that contains a superset of all the beliefs of everyone at the table. That's how you get contradictory truths into it. But really, isn't that just the same as a slightly different gamestate in ev…
  • I meant centralized or distributed pertaining to the participants at the table. Centralized: There's just one gamestate, and it's not actually in any single person's head. Distributed: Each player has a gamestate in their head, and it's probably c…
  • Back in the old days, a lot of gamers thought of roleplaying as pretending to enter an imaginary world, and the Ultimate RPG was one which was closest to a virtual reality simulation. To what extent is the Game State different from or the same as t…
  • So game state is by your definition at least in part tied to group consensus and definitions about the game. Group consensus is a tool people use to determine the truth of the game state, yes. I have another example. Recently I GMed for the first…
  • So, for example, let's say a WoD group is playing Vampire. They want to stay true to the current state of the masquerade metaplot, so they read the novels, supplements, etc. Yet there's a single novel they haven't read or know of, where an important…
  • To verify my understanding: Suppose half the group believes Elmo has blue eyes and the other half that they have brown eyes. There exists a monster who only kills people with blue eyes, though the never, in the cause of the game, happen to meet Elm…
  • Game State is the set of all true facts of the five components of Exploration (System, Setting, Character, Situation, and Character), known by players, or unknown by players. To me, this is quite clear. Are you intentionally disregarding colour, her…
  • When you say "your gamestate," is that a centralized thing or a distributed thing?
  • 1. If you believe there's a Truth, whatever it is, then the game state holds it, even if you don't know it. 2. The Game State holds all those facts. It's like the Gloracle, with its ability to produce infinite amazingness. Yes, the GM, too.
  • Game State is the set of all true facts of the five components of Exploration (System, Setting, Character, Situation, and Character), known by players, or unknown by players.
  • SIS in Forge terms is muddled because it's really unclear how much is truly shared and what kind of shared (shared-2, shared-4?). It's unclear because it's a "near or total synonym" of Exploration--while SIS is a "space" and Exploration is a process…
  • And that feeling belongs in his PIS during play, not in the shared model of the game state.
  • What if the randomizer ran once when you pressed the button, and never changed again after that? Say it said, "99.9." What was the frequency before you pressed the button? My preferred description/explanation would be like this: * The frequency w…
  • Contradictions are introduced into the blorb by mistakes: misstatements, misrememberings, misreadings. Essentially, my issue is that your model does not contain a single source of truth. Mine does. When someone runs a game set in The Forgotten Real…
  • So as not to derail my own thread, I posted Adam mines old LiveJournal posts about Game State for some sideways examples of this stuff, even the "new" formulation, that I wrote in 2008 on LJ.
  • Anyway, maybe these give some more insight into where my head is at. I picked excerpts that I still find interesting and useful. The originals contain some stuff that I feel is less useful, but still interesting. For more like that, click on any a…
  • In a theory thread on Resolution: Resolution Here's how a role-playing game works. Each player does this at the same time that every other player does it. Every play group works out a Procedure to synchronize these steps (and hopefully the System …
  • Please address the “waiting room of the blorb” example when the error is in the first session of a 75 session campaign. Let’s say there’s an error in session one of a 75 session campaign. Is the entire campaign now not taking place in the blorb but…
  • Digging back to Sandra's big posts. Lots of work for me to do. Patience, grasshopper.
  • All of this is because my Game State isn't a collection of facts that were inserted by player belief, as Sandra's Blorb seems to be. My Game State is the actual truth of the five components of Exploration, and it only needs one version of the truth …
  • Sandra, Here's an attempt to convince that the Game State probably should not contain errors. Adam, Bai, Cian, and Diana are playing D&D. Adam and Bai believe Elminster's eyes are blue. Cian and Diana believe Elminster's eyes are gray. They in…
  • (I prefer to think in terms of reference frames these days, SIS / MIS / PIS / Game State all being examples of particular frames, but that doesn't seem to have caught on with anyone else yet.) I don't use them because my model doesn't need MIS or SI…
  • The language you use - and, even moreso, Adam's language - confuses me totally. It sounds like bizarre hyperbole, and I don't know how else to interpret it. In comparison, I found Vincent's use of "offscreen canon gamestate" somewhat more useful, …
  • Hey @Adam_Dray I'm lost. I hope that if you answer this question I've come up with, it'll clue me in. If we have a table that determines NPC eye color, and its entries are Blue and Brown, and we haven't yet rolled for NPC Bart, then what exists in…
  • At the point the chess players realize that a cat bumped the pawn, they have to make a decision (apply a technique) to determine how to proceed. They can rewind the game and play from the correction or they can enshrine the error as truth. That is, …
  • I do not have a workable knowledge of philosophy, so I struggle to keep up in discussions that pull it in. For example your cat comes over and bumps a pawn wrongly and neither player notices. Later, when a piece is captured by that pawn, and yet la…
  • Corrections to errors in transcribing the game state to PIS or whatever are corrected by changing the PIS, not by changing the game state. This is because the game state is always correct and true. The trueness of the game state is what makes the o…
  • Yes. When I say things like "when we retroactively correct our impression of the Game State, it was always that way in the Game State," I'm talking about the for real in the Game State aspect.
  • Paul, Adam: I just didn't want Adam to miss all the discussion about this that we already had have because I was afraid he'd paint himself into a corner where the game state can't contain errors. Which it can. Just like the SIS-4 can. (Or, I think t…
  • Sandra, I like the Blorb principles, to a point, but if I followed them rigidly, I would not enjoy running games anymore. I don't enjoy a lot of prep, memorizing stuff, or long lookups during play. I tend to replace deep prep with a rule like "cr…
  • What do you want out of this thread?
  • Or just PM me!
  • Yeah, it's a preference or agenda, not dysfunctional gaming. I think Blorb might be a Technical Agenda, but I am not sure.
  • Game State = facts that you don't know yet + facts that you do know already - facts that don't belong in here at all
  • It's not unrealized after you realize it. This seems really obvious to me, so maybe I still don't understand your question. How many hit points does Bubba have? Is the fact realized or not? Are you asking if there's a class of things that cannot …
  • Note that this formulation doesn't change if the rule said to roll the d10 instead of take the max (though the hit point value could be different).
  • There are facts that are realized and facts that are not realized. In the Game State. Realized means the players used a Technique to determine the fact and now it's in someone's PIS. [[TIME T1]] Bob: "How many hit points do I have?" DM: "Bob, you'…
  • It's real as a potential. It's not always realized yet though.
  • The demon's name is Alabaster till someone uses a technique to change it. Maybe the technique the group uses is, "No, we already used that info in-game and it's not that important, so don't retcon it." Maybe it's "Hey, that was written down, so let'…
  • Jay pointed me at these old Forge articles by Chris Lehrich, and they're amazing. Lots of relevant ideas in there. Hermeneutics! I think he spends too much time worrying about the "shared" aspect of play and the "external validation" / authority s…
  • Okay, that makes sense.
  • I went and refreshed my memory on the terms mimesis and diegesis and none of it really worked for me as a metaphor for this stuff. Maybe I just haven't spent enough time with it. Both seem to me like they should be Techniques, because they're ways…
  • Do you mean "GM/player separation" or just "special authority"?
  • I don't want to get mired down in levels of reality and stuff. That way lies danger. Is anything real? Maybe we use the word "realized" instead of "real." The MIS is realized; the Game State is not.
  • I'm a lisp patzer. Only dabbled a long time ago. I've worked with other functional languages, but haven't worked extensively in lisp. Anyway... cool! The idea of "imagination" and "imagined space" and "personal set of predicates" is a model. The blo…